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Author | Topic: Conservative Racism | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
JonF Member (Idle past 196 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
The blacks and the white nationalists see racism in his tweets.
They're the experts.
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JonF Member (Idle past 196 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
Birds of a feather flock together.
Lie down with dogs, get up with fleas. His associations say a lot.
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5952 Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
This is not guilt by association.
Trump has no ideology, but he knows how to read a crowd and how to play to it. Regardless of how racist he may or may not be, he keeps playing to the racists in his base, elevating the level of their hate and their fear and providing them the cover to express those hates and fears openly. To openly act upon those hates and fears. It is no coincidence that hate crimes committed by whites have skyrocketed. And it is only now, right now, after almost three years of increasing incidents of domestic terrorism committed by whites that Trump has finally spoken out condemning white supremacy and domestic terrorism (though I'm not sure whether he has actually used the "t-word" yet). Of course, we have no way of telling what he'll say a few days from now. Trump has a long history of completely changing his position from day to day.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9199 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
Sam Harris is not a liberal. He holds some liberal positions but he is not a liberal. He has said and published many things that are extremely right wing.
Yes he has built up a reputation of a defender of science and critical thinking when in reality his beliefs and comments belie that. His support of Milos and Charles Murray show a very white supremacist regressive thought pattern. Things that are not supported by science.Just because he is anti-trump does not make him a liberal. Just because he is not an anti-Semite does not make him a liberal. His ideas and views about islam, racism, transgender and women are not supported by science. Sam Harris can best be described as a reactionary. He can call him self liberal or on the left all day long, but he is in fact a reactionary. quote:“We on the left”: Sam Harris, Joe Rogan, and Tucker Carlson There are plenty of people exposing Harris for his right wing tendencies. You might want to look around and see what they have to say.More critiques. Excellent critique of Sam Harris Sam Harris’ Epic Transphobic Fail – Queereka He may defend evidence based thinking but he does not take it into account personally it seems.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Chiroptera Inactive Member
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...it's an accurate description of the conditions he was talking about, and many others have said the same thing. But some kind of literal, dictionary "accuracy" isn't really germane, is it? Something doesn't have to be false in order to be racist. What makes it racist is the context: who said it, to whom was it said, what were the choice of words, what images do the words bring to mind to the intended audience (in this case, Trumps supporters), what visceral feelings do the words invoke in traditionally oppressed minorities who hear them, and what was the true meaning of the statement. So what is the context? As a member of the legislative branch's oversight committees, Cummings has a responsibility to oversee, among other things, the conditions of the executive branch's management of immigrant detention centers. As a result, Cummings is an important critic of the conditions found in the detention centers. Trump doesn't like to be criticized, so he's telling Cummings to shut up. How is he telling him to shut up? By associating him with the failures in his district. Why else would he bring up the problems in Baltimore? It can't be because they are analogous; they are very different problems with different causes and require different solutions. They have nothing to do with one another, so there can't be any reason to bring up Baltimore except to label Cummings as a failure by association. And how does associating Cummings with Baltimore make him a failure? It can't be because he's somehow personally responsible for whatever conditions are in his district. Unlike the current humanitarian crisis in immigrant detention centers (which are the direct result of orders given by Trump himself), the problems in Baltimore predate Cumming's career, have deep, complicated structural causes, and will require the cooperation of many agencies spread over several levels of government; and in all this time Cummings has been but one member among many others of the legislative branch. It is absurd to think that somehow Cummings has to single-handedly solve Baltimore's problems before he can criticize Trumps policies, and I don't believe this is what Trump is saying. And now let's look at Trump's choice of words. It has long been a feature of racist thought that black people's problems are caused by black people themselves due to their own failures. This much should be obvious. I have read white pundits criticize black ghetto culture, I have read politicians gin up fear among whites about black crime, I have heard my own relatives talk about "those people" and "they way they live". Black people are associated in the minds of racists with ghettos and crime and dysfunctional families, not to mention laziness and personal irresponsibility. When racist think about black people, one of the associations they make is rat-infested slums. Black people understand this. They have watch the same depictions of black people on TV, they see the same news programs, they overhear white people talking, and they can read the comments and letters to the editor that racists write. So when they hear a white person talking about a black majority area being "rat-infested", they understand quite well what associations are being made. So when a known racist like Trump responds to legitimate criticism by bringing up an inappropriate comparison that is in no way analogous to the criticism he's receiving and he's using language that he's already been informed has racist implications, what do we conclude? I conclude that he's telling a black person to mind his place and to quit bothering white people because black people are too irresponsible and unreliable and self-centered to really matter. This pretty much fits with Trump's usual behavior; it explains why his white racist base is excited by this; and the other explanations seem to me to be strained. Edited by Chiroptera, : A pretty unfortunate typo. Found a couple of others, too.It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn't know what he was talking about. -- Paul Krugman
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Taq Member Posts: 10084 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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dwise1 writes: Trump has no ideology, but he knows how to read a crowd and how to play to it. Indeed. Trump is more of a mirror being held up to his electorate. What he does and says is meant to appeal to whomever is standing in front of him at that moment. A chameleon would be jealous.
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Hyroglyphx Inactive Member |
You tried to illustrate "the exaggerations of the Regressive Left wing" with an example that turns out to be bonafide racism. If you want to discuss unfair accusations of racism, you need to find a better example. Or do a better example of convincing us that your example really is relevant. It's not really dodging an issue if you're failed to demonstrate there actually is an issue. The truth is that no matter what I say or what kind of evidence is presented will never suffice because then you'd be confronted with reality as it were, not as you wish it to be. This country has gotten infinitely more sensitive with respect to race and has used it as a club to quickly dispatch one's political opponents. And that is because when it comes to something like this, which is often measured by interpretations, the power lies within the accusation, not the facts. Its literally akin to proving that strawberry ice cream tastes better than chocolate... (which it clearly doesn't) All levity aside, this ultimately comes down to how people view things... and that it something difficult for either of us to convince the other of. Having said that, you see no difference in the amount of racially charged content on the air within the past decade? I would say that we're going backwards... not forwards. And this isn't because racism is becoming more prevalent, its because our threshold for what qualifies as "racist" has lowered to the point of absurdity.
I know. You tried to gain a rhetorical advantage by accusing me of racism. It didn't work. I not only continued to explain how Trump's comments were racist, but I tried to explain why it matters who the target is. Just pointing out that perhaps your subconscious is crying out! When I think of a rat-infested hellhole, I think of a shitty, run down place... my mind doesn't make a connection to black people. Sorry to disappoint.
If being in the middle means ignoring blatant examples of racism in our important government officials, then I'm not sure that the middle is really morally defensible position. If being on the Left for you means that lowering a race is the only way to elevate another then I'll happily reside in the middle where true equality exists. I'm just trying to make the world a better place and perhaps you are too, for however misguided it might be. But your heart's in the right place, so I can't find fault in that. "Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
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DrJones* Member Posts: 2290 From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 6.9
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are you suggesting that should i be a bigger man than the president? The concept of "being the bigger man" hasn't once flitted across Trump's syphilis riddled brain in all of his years.
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Chiroptera Inactive Member
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From The Guardian:
New York Times changes front-page Trump headline after backlash Not exactly analogous to the issues we were just discussing, but some of the principles are on display here. In reporting Trumps response to the El Paso terrorist shooting, The New York Times originally ran the article with the headline:
TRUMP URGES UNITY VS RACISM As Nate Silver put it:
Not sure "TRUMP URGES UNITY VS. RACISM" is how I would have framed the story. Here we have a classic example of where apologists for white nationalism can take out their dictionaries, do a word-for-word parsing, and claim the headline is accurate, even though anyone with basic reading compression skills can see how the headline is misleading. I realize those who can't see Trump is a racist won't get it. The NYT did change the headline, but I don't know whether it made the print edition:
ASSAILING HATE BUT NOT GUNS It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn't know what he was talking about. -- Paul Krugman
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Have you ever heard of the book, White Fragility: Why It's So Hard for White People to Talk About Racism.? I got it on my audible subscription recently and listened to the book. It is eye opening for people such as myself, but the author seems to make sense and has several salient points. It helps me to understand the social psychosis of white racism.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9199 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2
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Great book. I suggest it to all my friends. Few are willing to read it. I applaud you.
This subject is weird but very close to me. I have 1 1/2 feet in the traditional white world and 1/2 a foot in the hispanic/latinx world. I also have a teenage african brother-in-law that lives in our household. Here in NW Wisconsin we see and hear racism all the time. As the white supremacists get more and more riled up by this President and his supporters we live more and more in a state of concern and a fear of violence. I have a spanish last name. There are more and reports of families with spanish last names being targeted by white supremacist thugs. We are starting to plan an exit strategy if things get worse. That means leaving the country. I cannot live in a place where my family is threatened. Our initial plan will be to head to Canada and probably Europe from there. As my wife is an MD we will be in a much better position to find asylum than many others. Yes, I as an US citizen am starting to make plans in case my family needs to seek asylum. I know a few minority families that are also laying the groundwork to leave. Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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JonF Member (Idle past 196 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
Shortly after calling for unity he attacked Democrats.
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
He seems to do that a lot. I typed "Trump calls for unity then attacks Democrats" into my search engine and got hits for several different instances.
It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn't know what he was talking about. -- Paul Krugman
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8563 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
His call for unity was not serious. It was just something someone said might be popular for him to say given the circumstances. Once done he went on to his regular stream of consciousness rant.
Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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Chiroptera Inactive Member
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In the entire history of white nationalism, "unity" has always meant, "agree with us or shut up."
It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn't know what he was talking about. -- Paul Krugman
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