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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: What evidence absolutely rules out a Creator | |||||||||||||||||||||||
iano Member (Idle past 1972 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
Because GOD is beyond proof and verification. We can believe in Her, believe very strongly, but we cannot know. Once we've died we may find out, but until then I'm happy with just a belief. What you seem to say is that it is not possible for God to provide proof of his existance to an individual. How do you know this? (If answering then maybe AbE in your last post... as will I. I don't want to OT absorb remaining posts at this juncture) {AbE in response to post 228 by Jar)
Jar writes: I'm not even sure I can understand the concept of individual proof? You were climbing in the Grand Canyon. You stubbed your toe against a rock a cried "Bugger". You didn't stub it bad enough to mark it nor did you have a video of the event. You were alone at the time. Doesn't knowing you stubbed you toe ace (as far as you are concerned) being able to prove it to others? My question remains on this basis: How do you know? {Abe in response to Jars msg 233}
Jar writes: My answer to your funny little story, "No, my knowing I stubbed my toe is not proof that I stubbed my toe to anyone else."
Read it again Jar. I already said you cannot prove you stubbed you toe to others. But you know you did. Which is the issue at hand. Remember:
iano writes: What you seem to say is that it is not possible for God to provide proof of his existance to an individual Can God do as I suggest he could? Could he demonstrate to an individual that he exists. If not, how do you know he can't. This message has been edited by iano, 17-Mar-2006 01:23 AM This message has been edited by iano, 17-Mar-2006 01:24 AM This message has been edited by iano, 17-Mar-2006 01:45 AM
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
LOL Thank's Robin. That's a jewel. I could not have asked for greater support for my position. I'm glad you are amused. I like to amuse people. However, my definition of the word "fact" is "that which is true." So what I was saying was that I believe it is true that evolution rules out God. I'm not sure how that supports your position. It seems to be in direct contradiction to it.
I present my best support of my position You haven't presented any support yet. You can start, if you like, by refuting my points in message #163 of this thread.
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
What you seem to say is that it is not possible for God to provide proof of his existance to an individual. I'm not even sure I can understand the concept of individual proof? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
You are free to believe I have not presented my evidence, but for the record I'll gladly provide it once again:
In addition, as I have pointed out many times before: If GOD exists, She exists regardless of any evidence that rules out Her existence. If GOD does not exist, It does not exist regardless of any evidence that proves Its existence. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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iano Member (Idle past 1972 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
I've edited my last post to reply. If you would like to reply then edit your last post so as not to incur the righteous wrath of an admin for OT posting. Otherwise feel free to leave it.
And leave "How do you know?" hanging in your corner...
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
If GOD exists, She exists regardless of any evidence that rules out Her existence. If GOD does not exist, It does not exist regardless of any evidence that proves Its existence You call that an argument? I'm saying that God does not exist--I'm not offering any "ifs" here--and I'm saying that evolution proves it. See my specific points in message #163.
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
My answer to your funny little story, "No, my knowing I stubbed my toe is not proof that I stubbed my toe to anyone else."
Once again, there is no evidence that can either prove or refute a Creator. If there was a creator, there was a creator regardless of what the evidence shows. If there was not a creator, then there was not a creator regardless of what the evidence shows. Trying to prove or disprove GOD is simply an absurd excercise for those who are unsure of their beliefs, either for or against. It is a futile waste of time since GOD is not dependant on whether or not anyone believes in Her. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
You call that an argument? I'm saying that God does not exist--I'm not offering any "ifs" here--and I'm saying that evolution proves it. See my specific points in message #163. Yes, it is an argument, pretty damn strong one. robin, it doesn't matter what you believe. Your beliefs have NOTHING to do with reality. If GOD exists, She exists regardless of any evidence that rules out Her existence. If GOD does not exist, It does not exist regardless of any evidence that proves Its existence Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Does the Germ Theoy of Disease take faith in the same way God takes faith? Does the Theory of a Heliocentric Solar System take faith in the same way God takes faith? Does the Atomic Theory of Matter take faith in the same way God takes faith?
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
What a puzzle. A nihilist who believes in evolution has all the evos on his case while the Biblical fundamentalists are his fans (Iano and me).
My theory is that you are the only true rationalist among the evos. Maybe there's a better word for it but that's the one that occurs to me. And I think it also illustrates that Biblical fundamentalism is the height of rationality, despite all they say against us, which is why we appreciate you. But it certainly is odd. Of course in saying this I'm insulting everybody else here and they certainly aren't going to agree with me. But what else is new? May your clear thinking be Christ's way of leading you to Him.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Jar writes: Once again, there is no evidence that can either prove or refute a Creator. We Biblical fundamentalists see lots of evidence for a Creator. I wouldn't go so far as to say you're wilfully ignorant, but I do think that if you were to approach the fulfilled prophecies and a lot more of the Bible literally, like the historical record, you would wake up and smell the Creator's evidence coffee. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 Z Y BUZ SAW
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
We Biblical fundamentalists see lots of evidence for a Creator. I wouldn't go so far as to say you're wilfully ignorant, but I do think that if you were to approach the fulfilled prophecies and a lot more of the Bible literally, like the historical record, you would wake up and smell the Creator's evidence coffee. Fine buz. If anyone can ever come across a fulfilled prophecy, maybe you can start a thread on it. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Jar writes: Humans can never have anything except a belief in GOD. We cannot know for sure and anyone who says that they know for sure is simply fooling themselves. Those of us who've come to the status of children of the father, Jehovah god and who've come to receive his son Jesus as lord and savior, being born again (from above) by his Holy Spirit have come to know for sure he exists. He reveals himself to those who've come to know him in numerous ways. It's something only his children who've received his son having received his spirit experience. We can't prove it to you, except to point out things like the prophecies et al. I could write a book on just the spectacular answers to prayer I've received over the past 6 decades as a fundamentalist Christian. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 Z Y BUZ SAW
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ramoss Member (Idle past 643 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
The trouble with 'prophecy' is that it is often so vague almost anything can 'prove' it.. or it is written after the fact, or is decieded to be a prophecy after the fact, and shoehorned into place.
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
That's nice buz. I have never doubted that you believe all that.
But what does it have to do with the thread? If GOD exists, She exists regardless of any evidence that She does not exist, or regardless of whether anyone doubts She exists. If GOD does not exist, It does not exist regardless of any evidence that It does exist, or regardless of whether anyone believes It exists. Discussing whether there is proof GOD exists or evidence that shows GOD does not exist is simply mental masturbation. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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