Hi Ravhin,
Rahvin writes:
For our actions? Are you kidding me? It is the position of Christians that even newborns who have committed no sin of their own are still guilty because of a 6000-year-old ancestor who ate a fruit, and so deserve to burn for eternity.
I have no idea what Christians you are talking about.
I believe and teach: A person when they reach the age that they come to the knowledge of good and evil they become responsible for themselves. Some never reach this point due to mental problems.
When a person comes to the knowledge of good and evil as the first man and woman did in the garden and become responsible for themselves they are separated from God because of the decision that the first man made to eat the fruit and become as gods. When the first man made this decision he was kicked out of God's estate. None of His descendants have any right or claim to that estate.
Rahvin writes:
Aside from that, if your god created the lake of fire, he is responsible for every single person he sends there, even if you believe his reasons are justified.
I can agree with that.
My God did create the lake of fire for the devil and his angels. Matt. 25:41
The only beings God has determined will be in the lake of fire is the devil and his angels.
Your ancestor is responsible for you being in the position you are in but you are responsible for remaining in that condition. God had nothing to do with it other than to give man the choice of eating the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. You can't blame God for his decision but I know you will.
Everyone's decisions today determines their tomorrow if it gets here.
Rahvin writes:
When I was a Christian, I was taught that Jesus took all of the sins onto himself when he died and paid the price for all of us with a divine sacrifice,
I have no idea what you were taught or why. I do know it was what somebody had made a decision to teach. You can't blame God for what they taught.
But Jesus did take all our sins upon Himself and paid the price required to purchase us out of slavery that our ancestor had sold us into when he willfully disobeyed God.
Rahvin writes:
If that's the Christian position, then the "Sacrifice" was meaningless because Jesus knew he'd wake up three days later, go to heaven, and be worshipped for the next few thousand years as an aspect of god himself.
If that is all there was to it I would quite agree with your assessment.
But here you are treating Jesus as a mortal human. He was God in the flesh.
Rahvin writes:
Oh...and the "It is finished" thing? That's only in one of the Gospels. One of the other one paints a very different picture: "Father, why have you forsaken me?" Just another one of those inconsistencies.
Matt 27:46 (KJV) And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
47 Some of them that stood there, when they heard that, said, This [man] calleth for Elias.
There was darkness from noon until three in the afternoon because God had turned His back on His Son because He could not have sin in His presence. God the Father and God the Son who had never been separated were separated because Jesus took my sin (and everybody's)
on himself.
The physical pain was for us because we understand that. The spiritual pain of being separated is what purchased my freedom from slavery that my ancestor had sold me into when he willfully disobeyed God.
Jesus said: "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? I answer because you took my sin away. Thank you.
Rahvin writes:
Demanding obedience or even just good behavior on such a basis is inherently immoral and dishonorable.
I agree and God agrees.
He does not demand your obedience.
He just offers you an option. You are headed to the lake of fire because your ancestor sold you into slavery to the devil. You have not made alternate arrangements as of yet.
He offers you an alternative. He offers you a full pardon all you have to do is accept it.
But that is entirely up to you.
I think that is very honorable.
If He did not offer that opportunity I would say He was very dishonorable.
But if you so desire you can continue to blame God just like most people want to blame somebody for their problems instead of take responsibility for themselves.
It would be very honorable for everyone to take responsibility for themselves.
Have fun,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
™ Version 4.2
