|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Is my rock designed? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Bio-molecularTony Member (Idle past 5407 days) Posts: 90 Joined: |
ikabod: so rocks are independant of god ..ok so which can first god or rocks ... TONY: Already answered this. God created matter out of his energy, and created what we think of as "the natural" process the systems of weather changes, etc. that can form rocks. Example: God does not create babies, for he created the system "processes" what will do it for him. God does not create snowflakes, just the weather system processes that form them themselves. So it is with most things like rocks. Once the "machinery" for the process was in place the action became automatic, functioning based on the designed parameters of the system (like carbon cycle, water cycle, etc.) These process system cycles are not really natural. They needed to be setup, designed, started from scratch, that is provable. Matter is not natural and needed to be created, which rocks are made of. So if you go deep enough, rocks are the product of design in some way or another. Just not directly into a rock in itself. I hope this answers the question now!!!!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coragyps Member (Idle past 763 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
They needed to be setup, designed, started from scratch, that is provable. Where's the proof, then? You seem to have offered the same assertion a couple of hundred times here at EvC, but that's all. "The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Straggler Member (Idle past 94 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
God does not create babies, for he created the system "processes" what will do it for him. God does not create snowflakes, just the weather system processes that form them themselves. So it is with most things like rocks. Once the "machinery" for the process was in place the action became automatic, functioning based on the designed parameters of the system So if the "processes" are the key then in what way are babies designed, any more or less, than rocks are? You have said that rocks do not display design characeteristics.Do you think that human babies display characeristics that suggest the need for design? Your position seems very contradictory indeed.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Percy Member Posts: 22504 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Hi Tony,
I think we've fallen into a pattern here with us asking questions that you keep thinking you're answering. What's missing from your answers is any evidence. For example, when you say this:
Bio-molecularTony writes: God created matter out of his energy, and created what we think of as "the natural" process the systems of weather changes, etc. that can form rocks. What is missing is a following sentence that begins like this:
We know this because...... In other words, discussion doesn't consist of just describing your position. Clearly characterizing your position is just the starting point. Once you've made your position clear then you have to go on to present the evidence and rationale supporting your position. So you can't just declare that God created matter out of his energy, you have to present evidence that this is what really happened. You can't just declare that God created the system "processes", you have to present evidence for it. Without scientific evidence supporting your position it will carry no more scientific weight than what it actually appears to be, a statement of religious belief. --Percy Edited by Percy, : Grammar.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
se7ensnakes Junior Member (Idle past 5581 days) Posts: 3 From: Fort Pierce Joined: |
and so is everything else you experience. Your view of the universe is uniquely yours. If there is an object rock "out there" it certainly does not "look" the way you specifically see it.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
BVZ Member (Idle past 5519 days) Posts: 36 Joined: |
If ID cannot be used for something as simple as a rock... why are ID supporters using it for something as complex as a flagellum?
This thread clearly shows ID to be useless, since no ID supporter seems to be able to show me how to use it.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Urza Junior Member (Idle past 5455 days) Posts: 1 Joined: |
The problem is that we cannot design even one experiment to falsify this theory, that God created your pet Rock (and, thus, if the experiment fails, prove that God is, indeed, the world's originator). Additionally, we cannot design even one experiment to prove that God created the world.
We can however continue to research the fundamental building blocks of matter. Your rock is not just a simple chunk of matter as you stated. Is a complex orchestration of protons and neutrons composed of quarks and who knows what We can then take this information and make an intelligent decision on what we want to believe. If I was you, I would put the rock down and keep an eye out for new discoveries via CERN. Edited by Urza, : No reason given. Edited by Urza, : No reason given. Edited by Urza, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
1.61803 Member (Idle past 1533 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
If ID is lacking in evidence and therefore through simple logic and parsimony deemed false. Perhaps the designer/designers (if there is one) did not leave any,(evidence) that is.
When I feed my fish, they do not seem to mind that the food I provide is man made. In fact I'd be willing to bet they could care less. When I turn off they're light, it is I who decides when the sun goes down. How could they ever stand a chance to begin to comptemplate myawesomeness.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phage0070 Inactive Member |
1.61803 writes:
So your argument is that you prefer to ignore parsimony because you don't think your fish care one way or another? Being a sentient person with concerns more advanced than a goldfish I don't agree with your assessment, although you are welcome to model your philosophy after a fish with a brain weighing 0.097 grams.
If ID is lacking in evidence and therefore through simple logic and parsimony deemed false. Perhaps the designer/designers (if there is one) did not leave any,(evidence) that is.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
1.61803 Member (Idle past 1533 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
So your argument is that you prefer to ignore parsimony because you don't think your fish care one way or another? Being a sentient person with concerns more advanced than a goldfish I don't agree with your assessment, although you are welcome to model your philosophy after a fish with a brain weighing 0.097 grams. Heh, since ID seems to have it's varying degrees..from zealot creationist to agnostics. So too does the word consciousness mean different things to different people. Does our sentient existence in anyway trump that of a fishes? And if a fish is more intelligent than a worm, can humans with our superior intellect surmise something may exist more intelligent than he/she is? Is it possible for superior intelligent beings to exist outside of our ability to observe them like in some other dimension we can not comprehend. And if such intelligence does look on us like fish, is it any wonder our primitive arrogance and self importance keeps them amused. Edited by 1.61803, : bad spelling. Edited by 1.61803, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phage0070 Inactive Member |
1.61803 writes:
If that is the case it would be all the more amusing if, from our perspective, the fish chose to be "humble" and think like the scum on the walls of their bowl. And if such intelligence does look on us like fish, is it any wonder our primitive arrogance and self importance keeps them amused. There is no excuse to act stupider than we are because other things "get by" with less than what we are capable of. There is a difference between arrogance and healthy self-esteem.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
1.61803 Member (Idle past 1533 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
If that is the case it would be all the more amusing if, from our perspective, the fish chose to be "humble" and think like the scum on the walls of their bowl.
All I know is that energy through the processes of the universe manifests conciousness in many forms to include humans. The how is a matter of science and the why is a matter of religion.
There is no excuse to act stupider than we are because other things "get by" with less than what we are capable of. There is a difference between arrogance and healthy self-esteem.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
SavageD Member (Idle past 3781 days) Posts: 59 From: Trinbago Joined: |
There is no evidence or theory to suggest how anything could have been designed by an intelligent agent therefore, design does not exist. It's just imaginary, like my house, it wasn't designed...it assembled itself.
Edited by SavageD, : No reason given. Edited by SavageD, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
subbie Member (Idle past 1283 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: |
I take it from that assemblage of nonsense that you have no answer to the question asked in the OP.
Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate ...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
SavageD Member (Idle past 3781 days) Posts: 59 From: Trinbago Joined: |
I just said that intelligent design is imaginary...
Btw, why do you say that my comment is an "assemblage of nonsense"?
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024