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Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
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Author | Topic: Where should there be "The right to refuse service"? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Faith writes: Right, and here we have another Redefinition in order to avoid the plain truth. Denial and redefinition. Perhaps this time you can point out what terms are being redefined, or just stop making shit up.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2136 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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You can't warn about sin while participating in it. I think Heinlein said it best: Sin lies only in hurting others unnecessarily. All other sins are invented nonsense. Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Last I heard, Heinlein isn't God.
Of course, maybe he's YOUR god?
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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Faith writes: Last I heard, Heinlein isn't God. Maybe not but at least he's not imaginary and has a sense of morality and decency.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
No, I don't see any difference between robbing a bank and driving the getaway car. If it's wrong, aiding and abetting is wrong. You really can't see the difference between helping people get what they want and doing it yourself? It's good to see though that your instinct is to help the person; you have to make an effort to be hateful.
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Tempe 12ft Chicken Member (Idle past 365 days) Posts: 438 From: Tempe, Az. Joined: |
Faith writes: I picked it up from another Christian Nobody's website like my own and it's not clear where that person got it. Searching didn't turn up that particular incident for me either, but it did turn up reports on this sort of persecution being common in that region of Mexico, such as Persecuted Christians in Mexico kept from returning home.And Here's another one . And here is a Google page with a variety of points of view. Faith, I'm not sure that you see the irony in you posting these events. First, you miss the point that this is Catholic Christians employing their religious conscience which does not agree with the Protestant views (according to you and obviously these people) to devalue the citizen status of those of a different belief. They are using laws to strip Protestants of power, authority, and rights that other members in the society have. In this case, the correct view is that the Catholics in Hidalgo are representative of the Protestants and Catholics in our country, who want to remove power, authority and rights from same sex couples. This is the problem with laws based on Religious conscience, it is a slippery slope that can allow people to be discriminated against because their beliefs are different than those in power. Yet, these are the same laws you protect here because in America they give your "tribe" authority over others.The theory of evolution by cumulative natural selection is the only theory we know of that is in principle capable of explaining the existence of organized complexity. - Richard Dawkins Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night. - Issac Asimov If you removed all the arteries, veins, & capillaries from a person’s body, and tied them end-to-endthe person will die. - Neil Degrasse Tyson What would Buddha do? Nothing! What does the Buddhist terrorist do? Goes into the middle of the street, takes the gas, *pfft*, Self-Barbecue. The Christian and the Muslim on either side are yelling, "What the Fuck are you doing?" The Buddhist says, "Making you deal with your shit. - Robin Williams
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
To compare the refusal of wedding services because it violates God's laws to physical violence against those of another belief system, driving them out of their homes and threatening to kill them, is eye-poppingly absurd, it seems to me, but it's time for me to give up on expecting anything to make sense at EvC. Clearly the consensus here is that refusing to support gay marriage is equivalent to the Inquisition or worse so we just have to expect to be punished for it. Even physical retaliation against us by gays is not to be prosecuted. I had the silly idea that if I kept repeating the arguments SOMEBODY would get it and give up the absurd injustice, but it isn't happening.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: Even physical retaliation against us by gays is not to be prosecuted. I had the silly idea that if I kept repeating the arguments SOMEBODY would get it and give up the absurd injustice, but it isn't happening.
Once again you are simply just making shit up and lying. No one has said or implied or asserted or suggested or hinted that violence by any group against another group should not be prosecuted (note that is a different word than "persecute") and you are simply once again just making unsupported, dishonest, irrelevant assertions.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Perhaps you can show even one instance of anyone's calling for the prosecution of those who committed the vandalism against Christian businesses? Unlike the calls for prosecution of the Christians who refused to support gay weddings, I've heard people say they "don't condone" the vandalism but nothing about bringing the perps to justice.
And then there is Tempe's equation of mobs hanging pastors up by their arms and driving Protestants out of their homes, with refusing to serve gay weddings. Strange equivalences here. Unprecedented I think.
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Omnivorous Member Posts: 3991 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 6.9
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I personally think religious zealots everywhere should be prosecuted for transgressing the rights of others; and it does happen everywhere, a great daisy chain of Muslims persecuting Jews and Christians, Christians persecuting other Christians now, mostly, though they have a great track record against pretty much everyone; Jews persecuting Palestinians as though out to prove that, indeed, those to whom evil is done...; Hindus finding grist for their mill wherever they look...even the Buddhists have a history of persecuting the animists present where Buddhist teachings spread, and of violent clashes between temples and schools.
So the fact that no one here adopts your Mexican, evangelist-hating Catholic thugs cause celebre signals not hypocrisy but a weary awareness that you godly folks can't seem to keep your hands off each other. Tempe didn't equate violence and the refusal to bake a cake--he pointed out that both narratives reveal religious zealotry in the act of denying full human status to its victims. That was clear. It's rather dishonest of you to suggest otherwise. Edited by Omnivorous, : -that"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I will call for prosecution of vandals period, but I have also not seen a believable report of vandalism against Christians over refusing to bake cakes for a same-sex wedding. Remember I would want believable reports not just crap from the Christian Cult of Ignorance.
And if you could actually read you would see that was NOT the correspondence Taq made and that you are simply misrepresenting his position, as expected.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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What is even funnier is Faith complaining that some Mexican Roman Catholics forced Evangelicals to leave their village when she has made statements like the following from her posts and blogs.
quote: and from Message 246.
Faith writes: Since we will have laws against atheism I suppose those are the options, yes. They will have to live under our laws as written or leave. Faith writes: This would have to be determined as the state took form, what limits there might be on those who have alien views. They certainly would not be allowed to hold office or teach their views, but they might be allowed to vote in some elections depending on what the election was about, since they should have the right to arrange some things according to their wishes if they want to do so among people whose views they have come to hate. Faith and the rest of her tribe are the greatest threat that the US faces IMHO.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
[qs] Tempe didn't equate violence and the refusal to bake a cake--he pointed out that both narratives reveal religious zealotry in the act of denying full human status to its victims. [qs]
Which is precisely the false equivalence I was talking about.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Unbelievable. Deporting Muslims because they are committed to killing people who don't believe as they do, requiring atheists to live under Christian laws, which don't deprive them of life, liberty or the pursuit of happiness, just require them not to blaspheme God essentially or teach against God; depriving people of alien views that are hostile to the present government of the power to destroy that government, all this is treated as "the greatest threat the US faces." Not Islam with its stated goal of bringing everyone under Allah and Shariah law, no, Christianity with sensible laws to protect itself while allowing others basic freedoms. Which laws characterized the first colonies here, laws that kept Catholics out of office for instance because the Pope wants to rule everybody and kill those who resist. The only benign player in the game -- not perfect, not without fault, but still basically benigh -- is under attack while the wolves are defended against the sheep. Unbelievable.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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JonF Member (Idle past 198 days) Posts: 6174 Joined:
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Wow. She really doesn't see that she just proved and emphasized Jar's point.
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