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Author Topic:   Did the Flood really happen?
JonF
Member (Idle past 199 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 1024 of 2370 (860028)
08-05-2019 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 1000 by Faith
08-04-2019 7:02 PM


Re: Geological Column/ Time Scale is Over and Done With
Correction: Nobody HERE agrees with me, OR No OE/ToE believer agrees with me.
Nobody in the entire world agrees with you. Answers in Genesis, one of the best known YEC organizations, disagrees with you; I posted their definition.
Post a quote from someone who agrees with you.
Of course you can't, because nobody agrees with you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1000 by Faith, posted 08-04-2019 7:02 PM Faith has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 199 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 1026 of 2370 (860032)
08-05-2019 10:28 AM
Reply to: Message 1002 by Faith
08-04-2019 7:38 PM


Re: Basics Faith, basics.
If you have a stack of thirty silver dollars and you put a dime on top of it -- or even three or four dimes -- are you continuing the same stack of coins?
Yes, just as different layers in the geologic column are part of the same stack.
If, analogous to the case of the geologic column, the stack is defined as all the stacks in the room...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1002 by Faith, posted 08-04-2019 7:38 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1028 by Faith, posted 08-05-2019 10:33 AM JonF has replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 199 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 1027 of 2370 (860033)
08-05-2019 10:31 AM
Reply to: Message 1003 by jar
08-04-2019 8:57 PM


Re: Basics Faith, basics.
Of course not. And in fact that is exactly what is seen in reality; the cores in the geological column from different places will have differing layers of rock.
I disagree. Depends on how the "same stack" is defined. The geologic column is defined as underlying every point on the Earth. In this analogy, the stack would be defined as every pile of coins in the room.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1003 by jar, posted 08-04-2019 8:57 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1035 by jar, posted 08-05-2019 10:50 AM JonF has not replied
 Message 1094 by Minnemooseus, posted 08-06-2019 2:11 AM JonF has replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 199 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 1029 of 2370 (860035)
08-05-2019 10:34 AM
Reply to: Message 1005 by Faith
08-04-2019 9:41 PM


Re: Geological Column/ Time Scale is Over and Done With
Ah well I HAVE explained it. Over and over. Really I have. Sigh.
Repeating your claims is not explaining. Explaianing would be saying why you think thata, and presenting reeal-world evidence and reasoning.
You can't do that.
If the whole world including the sea floor is the geological column how is it that the strata we find on the continents, from Precambrian to Holocene, are not also found on the sea floor? Hm?
How do you know they are not? But that's irrelevant.
The column is not defined by its contents, it's defined by its location. Under every point on Earth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1005 by Faith, posted 08-04-2019 9:41 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1030 by Faith, posted 08-05-2019 10:36 AM JonF has replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 199 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 1031 of 2370 (860038)
08-05-2019 10:37 AM
Reply to: Message 1025 by Faith
08-05-2019 10:26 AM


Re: Geological Column/ Time Scale is Over and Done With
in most cases I would just repeat it
In all cases you just repeat it.
After you've got all your objections said of course.
Obviously you don't want to communicate, your goal is obfuscation. The geological column is not defined ass you claim, period, end of story, 30, that's all folks.
If you insist on your definition, please never say anything bout the geologic column in the future. That's just impeding communication.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1025 by Faith, posted 08-05-2019 10:26 AM Faith has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 199 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 1032 of 2370 (860039)
08-05-2019 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 1028 by Faith
08-05-2019 10:33 AM


Re: Basics Faith, basics.
That definition of the Geological Column is, in my opinion, invented for the purpose of getting around the obvious fact that it's over and done with
That's one of your claims. Repeating your claims is not evidence for your claims.
You have to incorporate all kinds of phenomena that are so utterly different from the Geological Column as we know it and as it is presented all over the internet and on Google image, that even you all should have to see the
That's one of your claims. Repeating your claims is not evidence for your claims.
. Duplicity, self-deception, etc.
Gratuitous insult noted. That isn't evidence for your cliams either.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1028 by Faith, posted 08-05-2019 10:33 AM Faith has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 199 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 1033 of 2370 (860041)
08-05-2019 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 1030 by Faith
08-05-2019 10:36 AM


Re: Geological Column/ Time Scale is Over and Done With
Right, that's certainly a handy definition.
And true, and in agreement with every definition I could find.
And yes, there's no point in my repeating my definition of the geo column.
No point unless you can produce some evidence your definition is valid. Quote someone who agrees with you. Find a definition from some reasonable authority that agrees with you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1030 by Faith, posted 08-05-2019 10:36 AM Faith has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 199 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 1038 of 2370 (860054)
08-05-2019 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 1036 by Faith
08-05-2019 10:53 AM


Re: Basics Faith, basics.
Problem is the silver dollar analogy doesn't reflect the reality that on the ocean floor the accumulating sediments have nothing to do with the geological column as we know it,
It's your analogy.
That's yet another repetition of one of your claims. Your claims are not evidence for your claims.
This notion of sea floor being raised onto continents or becoming continents is a really untenable idea, and pure theory since there is no indication whatever that such a thing has ever occurred or could occur.
That's a slightly new version of one of your claims. Your claims are not evidence for your claims.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1036 by Faith, posted 08-05-2019 10:53 AM Faith has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 199 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


(1)
Message 1059 of 2370 (860095)
08-05-2019 1:43 PM
Reply to: Message 1041 by Faith
08-05-2019 11:35 AM


Re: Geological Column/ Time Scale is Over and Done With
And everyone else.
All you are doing is blocking accurate communication.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1041 by Faith, posted 08-05-2019 11:35 AM Faith has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 199 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


(1)
Message 1061 of 2370 (860098)
08-05-2019 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 1050 by Faith
08-05-2019 12:25 PM


Re: Geological Column/ Time Scale is Over and Done With
Gulf of Mexico is ocean. ABE Wikipedia: "The Gulf of Mexico (Spanish: Golfo de Mxico) is an ocean basin and a marginal sea of the Atlantic Ocean, largely surrounded by the North American continent. It is bounded on the northeast, north and northwest by the Gulf Coast of the United States, on the southwest and south by Mexico, and on the southeast by Cuba."
ABE here's a map showing the continental shelf and the deep ocean
Exactly what are the signs of it "having been formed after all the strata were laid down, and that would include the strata of the Cretaceous with its iridium layer"? Why do you think that iridium layer was laid down after the rest of the world's iridium layer?
Time to repost... see my next message
Edited by JonF, : No reason given.
Edited by JonF, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1050 by Faith, posted 08-05-2019 12:25 PM Faith has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 199 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 1062 of 2370 (860099)
08-05-2019 1:51 PM


Reposting definitions and ocean cores
The geologic column underlies every point on Earth, including the oceans. Message 770:
You seem to think that the geologic column appears only in "very definite locations". No, the geologic column is defined as:
quote:
1. a columnar diagram that shows the rock formations of a locality or region and that is arranged to indicate their relations to the subdivisions of geologic time.
2 : the sequence of rock formations in a geologic column.
(Merriam-Webster, note "a locality or region")
quote:
The geological column is the theoretical classification system for the layers of rocks and fossils that make up the Earth's crust (also known as the standard geologic column). Fossiliferous layers can often be traced across entire continents and correlated with rocks in other countries.
(CreationWiki.com, note "crust" )
quote:
The geologic system is a conceptual arrangement of rock formations around the world meshed together into a single, unbroken record of Earth's past.[1] It is also known as the geologic column or geologic timescale.
(Conservapedia, note" around the world "l
Did you notice that none of those definitions restrict the location of the geologic column in any way? Every point on the crust (which encompasses all the parts that are above the mantle, including sea floors is the top of "the" geologic column. Really it's the local portion of a world-wide geologic column. The interior layers of the crust vary widely from place to place. But we can tell from context that "geologic column" really means "local geologic column.
When sediment accumulates on the ocean floor, it's accumulating on top of the (local} geologic column, and adding to it.
Message 789:
Drop a grain of sand anywhere on earth, including the oceans, and wherever it lands it is on top of the geologic column.
Off Greenland:
Mediterranean Sea:
Norwegian Sea:
If you want to speak only of layers on land, you need to use a different term..

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 199 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


(1)
Message 1069 of 2370 (860116)
08-05-2019 3:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1068 by Faith
08-05-2019 3:22 PM


Re: Patchwork Quilt Geological Column/s
We know water. We know gravity. We know erosion. We know the chemistry of lithification. We know Walther's Law. We know floods. We know lots.
Flood size is irrelevant after some point, because the effects are always local.
We know.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1068 by Faith, posted 08-05-2019 3:22 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1072 by Faith, posted 08-05-2019 4:19 PM JonF has replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 199 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


(1)
Message 1075 of 2370 (860139)
08-05-2019 5:26 PM
Reply to: Message 1070 by Faith
08-05-2019 4:12 PM


Re: Geological Column/ Time Scale is Over and Done With
No, the Gulf of Mexico is not sea floor
Thus spake Faith.
Define "sea floor" and demonstrate why the Gulf of Mexico isn't it. .
Note that significant layers are accumulating on top of a part of the geologic column in the Gulf. That's the point which you are desperately trying to avoid.
Also address the cores I posted
Edited by JonF, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1070 by Faith, posted 08-05-2019 4:12 PM Faith has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 199 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 1076 of 2370 (860141)
08-05-2019 5:32 PM
Reply to: Message 1072 by Faith
08-05-2019 4:19 PM


Re: Patchwork Quilt Geological Column/s
Thus spake Faith.
Floods don't produce layers, and flumes are irrelevant. Floods do not sort fossils or anything.
You're saying all life would be destroyed before layers accumulated. So the first layer and each subsequent layer would overly all the fossils.
Is that what we see?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1072 by Faith, posted 08-05-2019 4:19 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1078 by Faith, posted 08-05-2019 5:39 PM JonF has replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 199 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


(1)
Message 1077 of 2370 (860142)
08-05-2019 5:35 PM
Reply to: Message 1073 by Faith
08-05-2019 4:20 PM


Re: Geological Column/ Time Scale is Over and Done With
Why don't you just try to figure out why it's not sea floor and what I mean by that?
This isn't a game show. It's your claim, you defend it.
My money is on unthinking knee-jerk reaction in a vain attempt to avoid having to address the issue.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1073 by Faith, posted 08-05-2019 4:20 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1079 by Faith, posted 08-05-2019 5:41 PM JonF has replied
 Message 1080 by Faith, posted 08-05-2019 5:41 PM JonF has replied

  
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