Believing it is not proving it

You are trying to move the goal posts once again. I pointed that out to you in the message you are replying to.But I don't mind addressing the issue of suffering once again. I've responded about this to you many times before and really wonder if you've bothered reading the links I give you. Begin with the post linked in this POTMThen, if you want, feel free to start a thread on whatever subject you desire and I'll try to discuss it with you.But frankly, so far your posts have been like talking with a two year old. You can't stay on topic, you never acknowledge the posts I make, you simply return to your illogical assertions. Repeating the same old tired claims does not make them right.Go back to the discussion we began in Message 140 and address the locical basis I established.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

It has everything to do with it. You seem to think that everyone has their "beliefs" and one belief is as good as another.I disagree.Some beliefs are logical; some are not logical, and are therefore to be dismissed.You seem to have a different view.

ROTFLMAORobin, please go back and look to see who's beliefs that refered too.Have you been drinking again?AbE:So far there has been one person who has never supported ANY of his assertions in this thread, and it ain't me.This message has been edited by jar, 04-02-2006 09:03 PM

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I'll go over it again if you like. If God is the author of evolution, then God is a cruel God. This does not fit with the all-good God of Western tradition.You say that we don't know about morals, and we can't judge God. I say that if we don't know about morals, then the concept of sin is meaningless, since we would not be responsible for something we don't know about.Now sin is basic to Christianity, from what I can tell. But if sin is meaningless, then Christianity is meaningless.You say that morality is subjective, and I say that if morality is subjective then it is meaningless. "Subjective" means we just made it up ourselves. It's not real. Objective means we didn't just make it up ourselves. It's as real as 2+2 make 4. Now, if Christ died for our sins, obviously our sins had to be real sins, not just something we made up for ourselves and decided to call "sins." If they were really sins, then morality is objective.On the other hand, this God seems to be immoral, since he introduced suffering in the world of creatures who were innocent and yet had advanced nervous systems and so could feel pain.Therefore, this all good God is not all good, which cannot be.I have not changed topics, and I don't think I have talked like a two-year old.This message has been edited by robinrohan, 04-02-2006 09:18 PMThis message has been edited by robinrohan, 04-02-2006 09:24 PMThis message has been edited by robinrohan, 04-02-2006 09:30 PM

An unwelcome comment.

But I would like to say that Modulus made a good point about the plausibility of the idea that if we suffer, we can appreciate paradise more.Not sure how to answer that yet.This message has been edited by robinrohan, 04-02-2006 09:51 PM

But I am happy to try yet again. An assertion that you have never supported. However it has been countered in this very thread. Evolution is is not cruel. Cruel is human construct. When a lion kills the zebra it is not cruel, it's life. The lion eats. When the lion misses his kill and so starves, it's not cruel, it's life. Life is not cruel, it is. No, that is NOT what I've said. We cannot judge GOD, that is true. But that has nothing to do with morals. What we do have, and what makes us different than other animals is the ability to judge right from wrong.But that applies to us, Love GOD and love others as you love yourself.By the way I also expanded on that subject in a thread with sidelined where I outlined the four ways I believe man is different than the other animals. It might help you to read it. That may be what you belive, and I support your right to believe anything you want, but as I have explained to you before, that is only due to your ignorance of Christianity. The basics of Christianity is to Love GOD, and love others as you love yourself.It really is that simple. TTBOMK you are the only person that has said sin is meaningless. Yes, you often make that assertion but have never supported it. No, subjective means that it depends on the individual circumstances. A totally illogical statement based on fallacies at that. Try reading the Creeds. I've posted them for you many times. And if you want to start a thread on the meaning of Christ in the Christian religion, start one and I'll be glad to discuss it with you. Yet another unsupported assertion. It's also illogical. So far you have failed to address the issue of suffering, but I'll point out a few things.Suffering is a part of life. Without pain there could be no pleasure. There are several types of suffering. There is that which is caused by nature. This might include storms, sickness, accident. The big thing is that GOD has given us four great traits to deal with that type of suffering. I cover these in depth in the thread with sidelined. You can find that thread in Message 1.Then there is suffering that is caused by human action. That is directly addressed by Christianity. Love GOD and love others as you love yourself. But that god is just a creation of your mind, some picyune god of your imagining. It is not the Christian GOD.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

So God is not all-good?

Moving goalposts yet again?GOD is complete. I have consitently said that good and bad are subjective and human constructs.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

If morality is a human construct, then "sin" is meaningless. If we don't know what really is sin, obviously we are innocent.God, if he existed, would be an ideal being, the answer to everything. Such a God could commit no wrong.

You have made that assertion before but so far never supported it. It is also totally illogical. Something being a human construct does not make it meaningless. Try speeding sometime. Again, you are the only person asserting that we don't know what really is sin. I have consistently said that one of the Gifts from GOD is the ability to tell right from wrong, and the responsibility to try to do right instead of wrong. That's also the basics of Christianity; Love GOD and love others as you love yourself. That has been dealt with by me many, many, many times in this thread. It's also an illogical combination of your imaginings. Right and wrong, good and bad are Human Constructs. GOD is not a human construct. GOD is. GOD is complete.Man does not define GOD.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Jar, you might want to start THINKING instead of engaging in these ready-made phrases.This message has been edited by robinrohan, 04-02-2006 10:26 PM

why does he need to be all good i would say he is is benevelent, he doesn't show all that much goodness in the OT

This suggests that morality is objective. This suggests that morality is subjective.Make up your mind. If we can tell right from wrong, then morality is not subjective.If morality is not subjective, then we can judge events, such as evolution. There's no point in telling me that it's "natural." God invented nature. Therefore, He is responsible.

You might want to put a period in there to eliminate the run-on sentence. It would go right after "good." Also there's a comma splice. Put a semicolon after "benevelent" (misspelled by the way).Are you saying that God is a sort of Pagan entity?