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Author Topic:   Creationists think Evolutionists think like Creationists.
jar
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Posts: 34125
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 23 of 485 (568507)
07-06-2010 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Big_Al35
07-06-2010 11:10 AM


Re: The case may rest
Except of course, no one said that they only wanted evolutionists (whatever that is) to post. You are welcome to post just as anyone else is welcome to post.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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jar
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Posts: 34125
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 60 of 485 (568630)
07-07-2010 10:10 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by Big_Al35
07-07-2010 10:04 AM


Did you say:
Big_Al35 writes:
One of the key differences in creationist thinking and evolutionary thinking has not been mentioned. Creationists like to think of themselves as optimists; they believe in an afterlife, morals and good nature and that these attributes are worth pursuing. Evolutionary thinking however is very pessimistic. They believe in survival of the fittest, kill or be killed, anything goes. Success is measured in terms of still being around to see the death of all those around you.
Is that an exact quote of what you posted?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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jar
Member
Posts: 34125
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 107 of 485 (569200)
07-20-2010 8:33 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by GDR
07-20-2010 8:22 PM


Re: Evolution is agnostic
I'd say it would be a good idea to start a thread on it because I have never found where NT Wright presents any historical evidence.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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jar
Member
Posts: 34125
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 109 of 485 (569202)
07-20-2010 8:43 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by GDR
07-20-2010 8:40 PM


Re: Religion is irrational
Start a thread on it and I will be glad to join in.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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jar
Member
Posts: 34125
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 131 of 485 (569428)
07-21-2010 7:50 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by GDR
07-21-2010 7:37 PM


On what basis do you decide something is right or worng.
I base it on experience and training.
GDR writes:
You have to have faith that you were able to come to the correct conclusion and you have to have faith on the basis for that conclusion.
Not at all, I don't need faith, in fact very seldom do I have faith I made the right decision. That is particularly true when it comes to larger decision. But then I also get to look out the outcomes of many decisions which is a feedback system.
It is NOT a matter of Faith but rather experience and evidence; conclusions not faith.
Edited by jar, : appalin spallin

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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jar
Member
Posts: 34125
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 135 of 485 (569577)
07-22-2010 11:03 AM
Reply to: Message 134 by DevilsAdvocate
07-22-2010 7:02 AM


Re: Evolution is agnostic
DevilsAdvocate writes:
However, what I do take issue with especially is the morally contradictory and hypocritical nature of God in the Bible. To me he comes off as an irrational, selfish, vengeful, ego-maniacal, cruel tyrant who commands murders, infanticide and ethnicide of entire civilizations and groups of human beings. It is as if the the concept of god evolves throughout the Bible along with the civilization that conceives him in the first place. To me the god of the Bible is too contrived and too morally and philosophically dynamic in his nature, especially after having claimed himself to never-change.
Suppose though you look at the Bible as an anthology of anthologies, a collection of stories written by people of different eras, milieus and mythos.
Suppose you look at the many different gods in the stories with an understanding that what is being depicted is the vision that a given author had of God at that time?
Consider that, as you touch on in the part I quoted, the god in a story really does evolve along with the civilization of the period?
Finally, carry that idea further. The most recent story in the Bible was likely written about 1900+ years ago. Is it possible that the concept of god may have evolved since then?
Remember, in all of this we are still not talking about GOD, the real entity, but only mankind's concepts of that critter.
Edited by jar, : left out an apostrophe

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 07-22-2010 7:02 AM DevilsAdvocate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 07-23-2010 7:09 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34125
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 137 of 485 (569691)
07-23-2010 9:08 AM
Reply to: Message 136 by DevilsAdvocate
07-23-2010 7:09 AM


Re: Evolution is agnostic
DevilsAdvocate writes:
Than I take it you are not looking at the Bible as the all inclusive God-inspired inerrent word of God it (and fundamentalist Christians) make itself to be.
Of course, the Bible itself makes no claims about being infallible, inclusive or inerrant. That's another error the Fundamentalists make. In fact, there is not even such a thing as "The Bible".
DevilsAdvocate writes:
The question than become why should I believe anything in it concerning the very existence of God as a real entity, salvation, the resurrection of Christ, or any other Christian theology?
I can't think of any reason you should believe in GOD until you are presented with evidence sufficient to convince you. Frankly, I can't even see why that would matter. And as to salvation, no one has a clue about that.
My point though was more in reference to what I quoted.
DevilsAdvocate writes:
However, what I do take issue with especially is the morally contradictory and hypocritical nature of God in the Bible. To me he comes off as an irrational, selfish, vengeful, ego-maniacal, cruel tyrant who commands murders, infanticide and ethnicide of entire civilizations and groups of human beings. It is as if the the concept of god evolves throughout the Bible along with the civilization that conceives him in the first place. To me the god of the Bible is too contrived and too morally and philosophically dynamic in his nature, especially after having claimed himself to never-change.
Would the approach I suggested above help with the issues you raised just above?
Edited by jar, : had to go get the older quote

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 07-23-2010 7:09 AM DevilsAdvocate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 07-23-2010 3:44 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34125
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 142 of 485 (569742)
07-23-2010 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by DevilsAdvocate
07-23-2010 3:44 PM


Re: Evolution is agnostic
Yes, but that is just wishful thinking. There is no conclusive evidence that God exists in the first place, so why make the leap of faith that God exists but not as the Bible depicts him to be. Why believe anything in the Bible at all if this were the case? If so, than the Bible is just a loose collection of the history of the Jewish culture and early Christianity with many fictionalized stories. I think most of us non-believers already see the Bible in such light. Nothing new.
HUH?
What in there or in what I have said even implies, no, even hints that I think you should believe in GOD?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 07-23-2010 3:44 PM DevilsAdvocate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by crashfrog, posted 07-23-2010 4:06 PM jar has replied
 Message 145 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 07-23-2010 4:18 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34125
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 146 of 485 (569754)
07-23-2010 5:32 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by crashfrog
07-23-2010 4:06 PM


Re: Evolution is agnostic
crashfrog writes:
I think the question is not why you think DevilsA should believe in God, but why you seem to think you should.
That of course is irrelevant unless I was expecting someone else to agree with my belief.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by crashfrog, posted 07-23-2010 4:06 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 149 by crashfrog, posted 07-23-2010 5:42 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34125
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 147 of 485 (569755)
07-23-2010 5:33 PM
Reply to: Message 145 by DevilsAdvocate
07-23-2010 4:18 PM


Re: Evolution is agnostic
DevilsAdvocate writes:
It was a question of why should we not only believe but worship the god of the Bible who is morally inconsistent and downright 'evil' by today's moral standards.
Did you ask him if he did believe in the god of the Bible?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 07-23-2010 4:18 PM DevilsAdvocate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 07-23-2010 5:39 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34125
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 150 of 485 (569760)
07-23-2010 5:53 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by crashfrog
07-23-2010 5:42 PM


Re: Evolution is agnostic
Huh?
Are you saying you can't see how silly it is for you to ask me if I think I get some free pass for irrational belief?
Did you just join EvC?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by crashfrog, posted 07-23-2010 5:42 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 152 by crashfrog, posted 07-24-2010 11:26 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34125
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 151 of 485 (569761)
07-23-2010 5:54 PM
Reply to: Message 148 by DevilsAdvocate
07-23-2010 5:39 PM


Re: Evolution is agnostic
It certainly is.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 07-23-2010 5:39 PM DevilsAdvocate has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34125
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 153 of 485 (569870)
07-24-2010 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by crashfrog
07-24-2010 11:26 AM


Re: Evolution is agnostic
crashfrog writes:
You appear to be under the strange impression that your assertions about what exists in the universe are immune from challenge so long as you can pretend you're not asking anyone else to be convinced by them.
You are of course free to believe that what I believe is false; it is really silly of you though to think you can question whether or not I believe what I claim to believe.
I have no problem if you do not believe the GOD I happen to believe in is real, but that is totally irrelevant to what I happen to believe or even whether the GOD I believe in really exists.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by crashfrog, posted 07-24-2010 11:26 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by crashfrog, posted 07-24-2010 6:27 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34125
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 156 of 485 (569935)
07-24-2010 6:33 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by crashfrog
07-24-2010 6:27 PM


Re: Evolution is agnostic
crashfrog writes:
I'm questioning whether you have justification for believing what you do.
I have no problem with you questioning whether I have justification for what I believe. I really don't much care whether you believe I have justification for what I believe or not.
crashfrog writes:
You've not made the case that you do. I don't think you can demand a pass on that.
Nor do I have any intention of trying to justify what I believe.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by crashfrog, posted 07-24-2010 6:27 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 157 by crashfrog, posted 07-24-2010 6:35 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34125
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 158 of 485 (569937)
07-24-2010 6:39 PM
Reply to: Message 157 by crashfrog
07-24-2010 6:35 PM


Re: Evolution is agnostic
crashfrog writes:
jar writes:
Nor do I have any intention of trying to justify what I believe.
Then I don't think you should get to pass yourself off as anything but a fundamentally deluded person.
Okay, I have no problem with you thinking that.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by crashfrog, posted 07-24-2010 6:35 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
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