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Author Topic:   Landmark gay marriage trial starts today in California
ringo
Member
Posts: 17292
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 51 of 759 (572386)
08-05-2010 2:14 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Hyroglyphx
08-05-2010 10:38 AM


Hyroglyphx writes:

If you are a secular practioner, you have a legal obligation to marry everyone who requests it and pays for the services. But you can't walk in to a church and demand that they put their beliefs on hold, regardless of how reprehensible you may find it to be.


If a pastor or priest is performing a licensed marriage ceremony, he is a secular practitioner. I have no problem at all with rescinding his license if he refuses to marry certain people.


Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-05-2010 10:38 AM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-05-2010 2:31 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17292
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 57 of 759 (572400)
08-05-2010 2:51 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Hyroglyphx
08-05-2010 2:31 PM


Hyroglyphx writes:

Did you need the state's permission to get married in the past?


How far in the past? There was a point in history when governments decided that marriage had a lot of civil legal implications and that civil registration of marriages had become necessary.

Hyroglyphx writes:

Why not just revoke their legal authority altogether and leave secular marriage to secular society, and let the religious have their cerimonies?

Wouldn't that be the most equitable way?


Why go to such an extreme? Why boot all the clergymen out on the street, as it were? Just make it clear that anybody who wants to perform marriages must comply with the secular requirements. Then individual clergymen can either perform marriages or not. If a Satan-worshipping, mixed-race, homosexual couple wants to get married in the Baptist Church in Selma Alabama, the congregation has a right to refuse but the pastor doesn't.

Edited by ringo, : Splling.


Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-05-2010 2:31 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17292
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 98 of 759 (573259)
08-10-2010 3:32 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by Hyroglyphx
08-10-2010 3:09 PM


Hyroglyphx writes:

It's not a business for pastors, but it is for the State.


If the pastor is acting as an agent of the state - e.g. presiding over the formalizing of a state-sanctioned contract - then it definitely is a "business" for him, though I'd be more inclined to call it a "job requirement" myself. If the pastor was moonlighting as a bus driver, would you condone him refusing to drop passengers off at bars, strip clubs, etc?

It's simple enough. You do your job or you get out of the business. If you can refuse to marry one couple for any reason, then the state can (should) remove your right to marry any couple.


Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-10-2010 3:09 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17292
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 134 of 759 (576902)
08-26-2010 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 130 by Taz
08-26-2010 9:20 AM


Re: I lost respect for latino and black communities
Taz writes:

But all these communities who have been subjected to ongoing prejudices have absolutely no excuse to turn around and discriminate others.


They're human, aren't they? Discrimination is a human characteristic, not a race-specific one.


Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by Taz, posted 08-26-2010 9:20 AM Taz has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by Taz, posted 08-26-2010 7:18 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17292
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 137 of 759 (577004)
08-26-2010 8:04 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by Taz
08-26-2010 7:18 PM


Re: I lost respect for latino and black communities
Taz writes:

You people have spent the last year trying to convince me there's no such thing as race.


Exactly. People who have been discriminated against are not immune to discriminating against other people.

Taz writes:

I said latino and black communities. In other words, if 70-80% of their members support something, I think it's safe to say their community supports it.


I'm not disputing that. I'm disputing your claim that those communities have "no excuse" for discriminating against gays. They have the same excuse as anybody else, even if you don't like it.


Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Taz, posted 08-26-2010 7:18 PM Taz has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by Taz, posted 08-26-2010 10:30 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17292
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 141 of 759 (577042)
08-27-2010 12:17 AM
Reply to: Message 140 by Taz
08-26-2010 10:30 PM


Re: I lost respect for latino and black communities
Taz writes:

They escaped from authoritarian regimes to come here just so they could persecute others?


Blacks, latinos and Poles all have the same right to be human as anybody else. If you lost respect, it wasn't for the people but for some unrealistic ideal. If you expect them to be holier than thou because of their past history, they can probably do without your respect.


Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by Taz, posted 08-26-2010 10:30 PM Taz has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by Taz, posted 08-27-2010 1:08 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17292
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 146 of 759 (577067)
08-27-2010 2:27 AM
Reply to: Message 142 by Taz
08-27-2010 1:08 AM


Re: I lost respect for latino and black communities
Taz writes:

And since they don't seem to try too hard to overcome their prejudices, I don't see any reason why I should be better than them.


*shrug* Self-respect?


Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by Taz, posted 08-27-2010 1:08 AM Taz has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by Taz, posted 08-27-2010 9:25 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17292
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 157 of 759 (577165)
08-27-2010 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 148 by Taz
08-27-2010 9:25 AM


Re: I lost respect for latino and black communities
Taz writes:

Well, deep down in my subconscious I have racist tendencies. I am not and don't pretend to be some enlightened individual.


Maybe you should preemptively deport yourself.

(You should also remember that it's hard for lurkers to distinguish a poster playing the fool from being a fool.)


Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by Taz, posted 08-27-2010 9:25 AM Taz has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17292
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 364 of 759 (701894)
06-27-2013 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 351 by subbie
06-26-2013 10:33 AM


Re: Supreme Court punts
subbie writes:

The Supreme Court has held that the the group defending Prop 8 did not have standing to appeal from the District Court decision....


So you can't go to court over things that are none of your damn business? Imagine that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 351 by subbie, posted 06-26-2013 10:33 AM subbie has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 365 by subbie, posted 06-27-2013 7:39 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17292
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 623 of 759 (703096)
07-15-2013 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 622 by Faith
07-14-2013 8:19 PM


Re: Jar's misrepresentations of the Hagar story
Faith writes:

I thought my point was that by being returned to Sarai and not to Abram she was NOT treated as his wife.


So your example doesn't endorse polygamy but it does endorse slavery.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 622 by Faith, posted 07-14-2013 8:19 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17292
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 641 of 759 (760897)
06-26-2015 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 640 by Faith
06-26-2015 12:05 PM


Re: Finally Settled.. Supreme Court allows adults to marry whoever they want!!
Faith writes:

... and Christian pastors in Communist countries were made criminals and put in jail....


Did they have to share cells with the homosexuals who were also put in jail?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 640 by Faith, posted 06-26-2015 12:05 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 643 by Faith, posted 06-26-2015 12:10 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17292
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 645 of 759 (760901)
06-26-2015 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 643 by Faith
06-26-2015 12:10 PM


Re: Finally Settled.. Supreme Court allows adults to marry whoever they want!!
Faith writes:

If they were they would have been kind to them and prayed for them.


I'm glad to hear it.

Did you get my point at all? That homosexuals tend to be at the front of the line for persecution? Even ahead of Christians? Because it's often the Christians who are doing the persecuting?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 643 by Faith, posted 06-26-2015 12:10 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17292
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


(4)
Message 690 of 759 (761047)
06-27-2015 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 689 by saab93f
06-27-2015 12:58 PM


Re: Love reign o'er Everyone!!!
saab93f writes:

The vitriol is totally and utterly incomprehensible.


I think it's mostly the LOUD Christians who are protesting. If it wasn't gay marriage, they'd find something else for their doom-and-gloom-saying. It has nothing to do with religion, morality, etc. It's just a pathological need to be LOUD.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 689 by saab93f, posted 06-27-2015 12:58 PM saab93f has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 691 by saab93f, posted 06-27-2015 2:13 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17292
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


(5)
Message 717 of 759 (768733)
09-13-2015 2:50 PM
Reply to: Message 714 by Faith
09-13-2015 1:44 PM


Re: Holy Matrimony, Batman
Faith writes:

Give it a generation.


That's the ultimate cop-out. Hint: In a generation, you won't be here to be proven wrong.

Allow me to prophesy: In a generation there will be a Bigfoot in the White House. A gay Bigfoot. A fundamentalist Christian gay Bigfoot.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 714 by Faith, posted 09-13-2015 1:44 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
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