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Author Topic:   Immigrants good for me and you? Bad? How to make a good answer that is accurate?
Capt Stormfield
Member
Posts: 417
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


Message 161 of 353 (838656)
08-25-2018 1:56 PM
Reply to: Message 159 by Faith
08-24-2018 12:11 PM


Re: Conservative Cal Thomas (on a conservative site townhall.com) said this:
Public works is for the nation itself, socialism takes from some to give to others.

You mean like the way money for highways and schools is taken from everyone and given to people with cars and kids?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by Faith, posted 08-24-2018 12:11 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 162 by Faith, posted 08-25-2018 2:25 PM Capt Stormfield has responded

  
Capt Stormfield
Member
Posts: 417
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


Message 164 of 353 (838665)
08-25-2018 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by Faith
08-25-2018 2:25 PM


Re: Conservative Cal Thomas (on a conservative site townhall.com) said this:
EVERYBODY is benefited one way or another by public works.

Ah, I see. You use the phrase "one way or another" to pretend that the socialist programs you like are different and should be called "public works". On the other hand you define the benefits of the socialist programs you don't like as benefiting only "others", who somehow don't don't fall under the rubric of "one way or another".

Did you miss the part where socialists use precisely the same "one way or another" reasoning to support their "no man is an island" view of how societies ought to be organized?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by Faith, posted 08-25-2018 2:25 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 165 by Faith, posted 08-25-2018 3:38 PM Capt Stormfield has responded

  
Capt Stormfield
Member
Posts: 417
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


(1)
Message 166 of 353 (838668)
08-25-2018 4:26 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by Faith
08-25-2018 3:38 PM


Re: Conservative Cal Thomas (on a conservative site townhall.com) said this:
...perhaps I'll come back...

Perhaps you will. What's certain is that you will neither grasp nor address the underlying principle when you do.

You are quite happy for government to participate in the economy (or in regulating culture and behavior) in the areas that are important or useful to you, not so much in those that aren't. What you fail to realize is that your choice of an infinitely flexible qualifier like "one way or another" is an exercise in transparently child-like linguistic foot-stamping that translates roughly as "me, me, my way".


This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by Faith, posted 08-25-2018 3:38 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 168 by Faith, posted 08-25-2018 10:50 PM Capt Stormfield has responded

  
Capt Stormfield
Member
Posts: 417
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


(2)
Message 170 of 353 (838683)
08-26-2018 12:54 AM
Reply to: Message 168 by Faith
08-25-2018 10:50 PM


Re: Conservative Cal Thomas (on a conservative site townhall.com) said this:
... rather than always supporting only things that benefit oneself.

Wherein your idiotic straw man makes my point yet again. Where are you getting the idea that advocacy for government involvement in the economy necessarily equates with benefiting oneself?

You rationalize government spending on infrastructure based on your perception that it benefits everyone, if only indirectly, and give it a name ("public works") that allows you to pretend that it's different than government spending on other programs that have equally complex ramifications for society. The benefits of government assistance in providing health care, housing, education, etc. is no more limited to the direct recipients of those services than road building is to road builders.

The difference lies primarily in your fear of a word. This is hardly surprising, since your world view is based on superstition and symbolism. As a rational conservative, I see your inability to see past blind ideology in the same way a scientifically literate believer would see your creationism - a tribal reflex, uncontaminated by reason or understanding.

You have confused conservatism with backwardness, and because of people like you and your contemptible disdain for critical thought or learning, your country is falling behind the curve of other industrialized societies in nearly every metric for success and well being.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by Faith, posted 08-25-2018 10:50 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 8:58 AM Capt Stormfield has responded

  
Capt Stormfield
Member
Posts: 417
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


(1)
Message 179 of 353 (838706)
08-26-2018 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 178 by Tangle
08-26-2018 11:19 AM


Re: Conservative Cal Thomas (on a conservative site townhall.com) said this:
I’ll never understand that.

Try driving an ice-pick just a little way into your forehead. That should help.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 178 by Tangle, posted 08-26-2018 11:19 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Capt Stormfield
Member
Posts: 417
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


Message 180 of 353 (838707)
08-26-2018 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by Faith
08-26-2018 8:58 AM


Re: Socialism
He's good on the subject of a basically capitalistic society having a few socialistic programs. It works as long as the socialistic part doesn't get too big (although it is still theft and still has negative effects on society as a whole). He mentions the countries that have some socialistic programs that are mistakenly pointed to as if they were socialistic societies, saying that no, they are capitalistic societies that have enough wealth to support some socialistic programs, but that the overall effect of these programs is negative.

Or, in other words, successfully socialized countries aren't really socialized because socialism doesn't work. Gosh, I wonder what's really under that kilt....


This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 8:58 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 189 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 3:19 PM Capt Stormfield has responded

  
Capt Stormfield
Member
Posts: 417
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


Message 181 of 353 (838708)
08-26-2018 12:47 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by Faith
08-26-2018 8:58 AM


Re: Socialism
That is the role of charity, which he also mentions: we should give to help the poor, and that is an obligation felt by religious people as he points out, but not by atheists and socialists...

You are both ignorant and a liar.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 8:58 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Capt Stormfield
Member
Posts: 417
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


Message 182 of 353 (838709)
08-26-2018 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by Faith
08-26-2018 8:58 AM


Re: Socialism
It works as long as the socialistic part doesn't get too big...

Interestingly enough, that's how I'd describe the role of leafy green vegetables in a healthy diet. People who don't eat them tend to get ill. People who fetishize them and eat nothing else also get sick.

A balanced diet, OTOH, requires a bit of thought. Did you read post 167? Do you understand how a mixed economy works? Do you understand that virtually no one advocates total state control of the economy? Have you noticed how quickly self-described conservatives wet their Depends when it is proposed to end a government program that affects them?

When you throw around the word socialism, you are committing the basic semantic fallacy of addressing the word instead of the thing. I understand the motivation. It saves you having to think. Next time someone proposes a program or policy, try looking at the thing itself, rather than throwing a though-stopping label at it.

You are, in essence, screaming "My hippie cousin tried to live on an all carrot diet and died so vegetables are bad."

Shapiro is saying "Well sure people eat salad, but they only get away with it because they eat other stuff too." Well no shit, Sherlock. Ever consider trying to look at a variety of diets, quantify their balance of inputs, and apply it to your own situation? Oh yeah, I forgot, that's the real and tedious work of the thousands of people who actually do it, and doesn't make for a quick buck on the "here today, gone tomorrow" monetized celeb circuit.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 8:58 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Capt Stormfield
Member
Posts: 417
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


(1)
Message 205 of 353 (838732)
08-26-2018 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 189 by Faith
08-26-2018 3:19 PM


Re: Socialism
A few socialistic programs built on top of a capitalist economy is not a "successfully socialized country"

In fact that is precisely the definition. It is exactly the situation that exists in the countries "conservatives" always wave about as examples of the socialist bogeyman. You keep hacking at some Marxist strawman from the era of your childhood.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 3:19 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 209 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 4:03 PM Capt Stormfield has not yet responded

  
Capt Stormfield
Member
Posts: 417
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


Message 208 of 353 (838735)
08-26-2018 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 201 by Faith
08-26-2018 3:45 PM


Re: Robber Barons
He simply said pay your taxes, and all of us have to do that no matter what without asking what they are for. But just as a matter of fact the welfare state operates on theft...

So let me see if I have this straight. You agree with Jesus that his followers in Roman times had a duty to pay their taxes, that those taxes were legitimately owed to the state. But in today's world, with duly elected democratic governments, those taxes have become theft from all the good Christian citizens?

He advocates giving, period.

You know, just one line back you said he advocates paying your taxes. Maybe you should eat more green leafy vegetables, I hear they're good for the short term memory.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 201 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 3:45 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 211 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 4:09 PM Capt Stormfield has not yet responded

  
Capt Stormfield
Member
Posts: 417
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


Message 223 of 353 (838751)
08-26-2018 6:21 PM
Reply to: Message 221 by Faith
08-26-2018 6:08 PM


Re: Robber Barons
Since Faith doesn't seem to think countries with a sound market driven economy that allocate sustainable amounts of their GNP to social spending are actually examples of the successful integration of socialism (message 171), perhaps she could share with us a few examples of countries that she thinks are socialistic. Also, how would she classify the economies of say Russia, France, Norway, Canada, and the U.S.?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 6:08 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 225 by Faith, posted 08-27-2018 12:29 AM Capt Stormfield has not yet responded

  
Capt Stormfield
Member
Posts: 417
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


Message 302 of 353 (838951)
08-30-2018 10:14 PM
Reply to: Message 289 by Faith
08-30-2018 4:40 PM


Re: Socialism
Arthur Brooks, the author of a book on donors to charity, “Who Really Cares,” cites data that households headed by conservatives give 30 percent more to charity than households headed by liberals. A study by Google found an even greater disproportion: average annual contributions reported by conservatives were almost double those of liberals.

Does the rubric of charity include donations to church run organizations?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 289 by Faith, posted 08-30-2018 4:40 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Capt Stormfield
Member
Posts: 417
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


(1)
Message 307 of 353 (839106)
09-03-2018 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 306 by Hyroglyphx
09-03-2018 12:58 AM


Re: Conservative Cal Thomas (on a conservative site townhall.com) said this:
We have to remember that Faith deals in words, not the actual things that the words represent.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 306 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-03-2018 12:58 AM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
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