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Author Topic:   The 2020 Democratic Presidential Nomination Campaign
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6814
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 4.2


(1)
Message 31 of 297 (853730)
05-31-2019 10:33 AM


From this morning's New York Times:

The 2020 Race Is Testing Progressives’ Power. They’re Pushing Back.

The article describes the excitement of the progressive wing of the Democratic party as they have won important elections and have swung the conversation to the left and their frustration that Biden's campaign threatens to yank it back to the "Center".

Some thoughts I have about the Democratic nomination:


  • Biden's support is "only" 30%-40%. This is a plurality right now, but remember the rest of the support is divided among many other candidates on the left. As non-viable candidates drop out, their support will undoubtably go to other left candidates. It's not clear yet whether Biden is alread near his ceiling.

  • This is especially true when you consider that at this point very few people are paying more than a superficial attention to the election right now. You'll see numbers change as the election gets closer.

  • If nothing else, a good showing by whoever Biden's main opponent is will force Biden to take some of the positions on the left. Some of us were able to give Clinton more than just grudging support because Sanders succeeded in pulling her off of the "center" on some issues.

  • As AZPaul3 points out, there is a danger that whoever loses the nomination, their supporters will sit out the election (or vothe third party, which is essentially the same thing). The smart candidate will realize that the Democratic Party is a coalition of different viewpoints and beliefs and, regardless where their main support comes from, will offer some compromises to form as broad a consensus as possible. (I see this as potentially Sanders' greatest weakness.)

  • As DC8S pointed out in another thread, many of the policies promoted by the "radicals" have the support of majorities of Americans - which is why I keep writing "center" in quotes. I cannot for the life of me figure out how this can't be turned into a winning campaign.

  • Trying to decide who is more "electable" is a mug's game. Right now Republican operatives are digging dirt and gaffes on all the likely nominees, and once the nominee is chosen the conservative smear machine go into full force and the nominee will absolutely become a hell ofa lot less electable. Support the candidate you like, and if you answer polls do it truthfully. I believe the primaries will select the most "electable" candidate.


If this was a witch hunt, it found a lot of witches. -- David Cole, writing about the Mueller investigation.

  
ringo
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Posts: 17570
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 32 of 297 (853747)
05-31-2019 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Faith
05-30-2019 6:30 PM


Faith writes:

Prove it.


You asked who has "accused" Trump of anything. There are the names in Message 27. The accusations themselves are the proof that he was accused.

Izquierdo.

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Taq
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(1)
Message 33 of 297 (853756)
05-31-2019 12:38 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by AZPaul3
05-30-2019 11:00 PM


AZPaul3 writes:

It really doesn't matter which democrat you support. Pick one and go to work for them even if only 2-3 nights a month.

Exactly. All of the current top 15 Democratic candidates are better than Trump, so let's not trip on not having a perfect candidate an instead elect a better candidate.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Tanypteryx
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Posts: 2332
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 6.0


Message 34 of 297 (853764)
05-31-2019 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Taq
05-31-2019 12:38 PM


Exactly. All of the current top 15 Democratic candidates are better than Trump, so let's not trip on not having a perfect candidate an instead elect a better candidate.

I'm have trouble thinking of anyone who would not be better than Trump. The only ones are already dictators, oh well, and also all the idiots who support Trump. So there are millions who are not better than Trump....never mind.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by ringo, posted 05-31-2019 2:07 PM Tanypteryx has acknowledged this reply
 Message 37 by Chiroptera, posted 05-31-2019 2:18 PM Tanypteryx has acknowledged this reply
 Message 38 by Taq, posted 05-31-2019 3:19 PM Tanypteryx has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17570
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 35 of 297 (853767)
05-31-2019 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Tanypteryx
05-31-2019 1:45 PM


Tanypteryx writes:

I'm have trouble thinking of anyone who would not be better than Trump.


Whenever I hear that, I always think of this:
" But first, will you please, please welcome... a block of wood!"
-- Monty Python

Izquierdo.

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Replies to this message:
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Stile
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Posts: 3863
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 1.8


(1)
Message 36 of 297 (853768)
05-31-2019 2:16 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by ringo
05-31-2019 2:07 PM


Or The Simpsons and their inanimate carbon rod

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Chiroptera
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Posts: 6814
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 4.2


(8)
Message 37 of 297 (853769)
05-31-2019 2:18 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Tanypteryx
05-31-2019 1:45 PM


I'm have trouble thinking of anyone who would not be better than Trump.

That's what I said about Ronald Reagan.

Then I said it again about George W. Bush.

THERE IS NO BOTTOM, PEOPLE!


If this was a witch hunt, it found a lot of witches. -- David Cole, writing about the Mueller investigation.

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Taq
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Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 38 of 297 (853772)
05-31-2019 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Tanypteryx
05-31-2019 1:45 PM


Tanypteryx writes:

I'm have trouble thinking of anyone who would not be better than Trump.

If we limit ourselves to politicians: Ron Paul, Steve King, Sarah Palin, and Rick Santorum (Google it). If I were to think of the one politician who is just above the Trump line I would probably pick Pence, ironically enough.


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anglagard
Member
Posts: 2203
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


(2)
Message 39 of 297 (853939)
06-02-2019 8:06 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Theodoric
05-30-2019 8:42 AM


Re: Elizabeth Warren?
I am inherently compelled to support Warren because she address the 'how'.

Apparently, at least in my life of 61 years, this only happens a very few times a century.

All others are slingin' bullshit, until they address the 'how.'


Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider. - Francis Bacon

This message is a reply to:
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anglagard
Member
Posts: 2203
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


(3)
Message 40 of 297 (853940)
06-02-2019 9:26 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by AZPaul3
05-30-2019 11:00 PM


Hold that thought
AZPaul writes:

Right now I feel more affection for Pocahontas and Beto than the rest but all that can change.

Beto is just another jerk off clueless white dude who thinks millennials remember JFK.

I might consider Beto once he 'actually' discovers and has a plan, including an inhospitable environment and income inequality, which nearly all the white men running refuse to even discuss (except Bernie).

The daughter and I obviously supported O'Rourke against Cruz when we lived in hell (aka Texas), but he needs to conquer his own cowardice before he should try to conquer the nation.

At this moment, he is what Holden Caufield referred to as phony. Perhaps he just has the right heart but needs some lessons on how to win elections from Kamala Harris.

Edited by anglagard, : left out important word.


Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider. - Francis Bacon

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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AZPaul3
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Posts: 4760
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 41 of 297 (853941)
06-02-2019 11:39 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by anglagard
06-02-2019 9:26 PM


Re: Hold that thought
Hey! Stop with the racism. Us jerk off clueless white dudes who actually do remember JFK take exception to our characterization.

What you got on Jay Inslee. I haven't seen him but a Colorado friend told me the folks in Colorado either hate him or love him and all for the same reason. He's a flaming liberal with a rather pragmatic approach.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-03-2019 12:53 AM AZPaul3 has responded
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Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2332
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 6.0


Message 42 of 297 (853942)
06-03-2019 12:53 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by AZPaul3
06-02-2019 11:39 PM


Re: Hold that thought
I thought Inslee is the governor Washington. He's full on climate change candidate.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by AZPaul3, posted 06-02-2019 11:39 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by AZPaul3, posted 06-03-2019 2:34 AM Tanypteryx has acknowledged this reply

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4760
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 43 of 297 (853951)
06-03-2019 2:34 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by Tanypteryx
06-03-2019 12:53 AM


Re: Hold that thought
Washington. Of course.

Where did I get Colorado?

I tell ya, the older I get ...


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-03-2019 12:53 AM Tanypteryx has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by jar, posted 06-03-2019 7:23 AM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply
 Message 45 by Theodoric, posted 06-03-2019 10:04 AM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31670
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


(4)
Message 44 of 297 (853954)
06-03-2019 7:23 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by AZPaul3
06-03-2019 2:34 AM


Re: Hold that thought
... still beats the other option.

IIRC


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
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Theodoric
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Posts: 6845
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


(4)
Message 45 of 297 (853967)
06-03-2019 10:04 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by AZPaul3
06-03-2019 2:34 AM


Re: Hold that thought
Hickenlooper is the Governor of Colorado. Fairly rightest for a Democrat. He has the Obama and Biden curse of thinking the GOP will see the light and work with them for the betterment of society as a whole. Write him off.
He uses "Socialism" as a fear word. There is no place for that in the Democratic Party. We need strong progressives not afraid of socialism for all not just the rich and corporations.
https://www.alternet.org/...decrying-socialism-read-the-room
stick a fork in him. He is done. Not just as a Presidential candidate but anywhere in the Democratic Party.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


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