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Author Topic:   Belief Versus The Scientific Method
drlove
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Posts: 146
Joined: 01-02-2022
Member Rating: 1.2


(1)
Message 376 of 480 (890764)
01-10-2022 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 362 by Theodoric
01-10-2022 2:41 PM


Re: Covid-19 death rate between vaccinated vs un-vaccinated by nation.
quote:
I don't see any source or data for these claims

"Out of the over 3700 deaths reported from Dec. 6 to Jan. 2, over 2600 of them were fully vaccinated – over 70%, according to the data, and an additional 130 deaths attributed to the “partly vaccinated” brings the total up to nearly 75%.

Additionally, the fully vaccinated account for, by far, the vast majority of Covid-19 cases during that time period."

Bombshell: Nearly 75% of UK Covid Deaths Were Vaxxed, Govt Data Shows

Government stats are not data? (UKHSA)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 362 by Theodoric, posted 01-10-2022 2:41 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 384 by Theodoric, posted 01-10-2022 3:29 PM drlove has responded

  
drlove
Member
Posts: 146
Joined: 01-02-2022
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 377 of 480 (890765)
01-10-2022 3:15 PM
Reply to: Message 365 by Theodoric
01-10-2022 2:50 PM


Re: To question you must understand
I have offered an abundance of links and professional opinions. The issue here, in case you have not clued in yet, is not which side was right or wrong! The issue is "Is it Science" either way? It seems to me that if it were a matter of fact and real knowledge and science that we would not have this great division.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 365 by Theodoric, posted 01-10-2022 2:50 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
drlove
Member
Posts: 146
Joined: 01-02-2022
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 378 of 480 (890767)
01-10-2022 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 373 by Theodoric
01-10-2022 3:02 PM


Since you pick out one of the untold tens of thousands of professionals to say he is a liar, do show us exactly what lie he told. Wiki should do that rather than basically saying someone lied!

We wait. But remember the issue is not whether the thousands of scientists and doctors and virologists and other various professionals are right or wrong. or even if they never lied. (Otherwise Fauci would probably not have a job) Oh, and it is easy to get a list of those lies.

example:

"Dr. Anthony Fauci was absolutely adamant that the National Institutes of Health has never funded dangerous research on bat viruses in the Chinese lab suspected of being the source of the COVID-19 pandemic-"

https://nypost.com/2021/05/26/enough-of-faucis-lies-devine/

Edited by drlove, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 373 by Theodoric, posted 01-10-2022 3:02 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 380 by Theodoric, posted 01-10-2022 3:22 PM drlove has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7148
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 379 of 480 (890768)
01-10-2022 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 374 by drlove
01-10-2022 3:06 PM


Re: belief vs unbelief
This is evidence of nothing. Correlation does not equal causation. They themselves admit they have no idea if these numbers are higher than other years.
Easy way to tell this is all bullshit fear mongering.
The first guy is from Portugal he died on January 3. ON February 12 Portugal was still in its first phase. He was not eligible for the vaccine.
Vaccine roll out – What you need to know
2nd guy was not eligible for the vaccine.
Hank Aaron dies in his sleep 2 weeks after the vaccine. 88 yer olds die in their sleep all the time.
The vast majority of the people that died in the first 3 months of 2021 could not have gotten the vaccine. I am 59 and I was not able to get mine until March 9. The only reason I was that early was because of other health issues.
These idiots have disproven their own argument. They are showing that athletes do die all of the time independent of the vaccine.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 374 by drlove, posted 01-10-2022 3:06 PM drlove has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 382 by drlove, posted 01-10-2022 3:23 PM Theodoric has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7148
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 380 of 480 (890769)
01-10-2022 3:22 PM
Reply to: Message 378 by drlove
01-10-2022 3:19 PM


Alex Berenson is not a professional he is a journalist. maybe if you actually looked at what you link to you would know.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 378 by drlove, posted 01-10-2022 3:19 PM drlove has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 383 by drlove, posted 01-10-2022 3:26 PM Theodoric has responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2773
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 381 of 480 (890770)
01-10-2022 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 366 by Theodoric
01-10-2022 2:51 PM


Re: To question you must understand
Yep!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 366 by Theodoric, posted 01-10-2022 2:51 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
drlove
Member
Posts: 146
Joined: 01-02-2022
Member Rating: 1.2


(1)
Message 382 of 480 (890771)
01-10-2022 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 379 by Theodoric
01-10-2022 3:20 PM


Re: belief vs unbelief
There is no question that the vaccine caused many many thousands of deaths. Whether each young person for sure died of the vaccine is not the issue. Something is going on. You can believe in coincidences if you like. Since death and adverse effects of the vaccine are not stats that are well kept we have no real way of knowing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 379 by Theodoric, posted 01-10-2022 3:20 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 386 by Theodoric, posted 01-10-2022 3:31 PM drlove has not yet responded
 Message 387 by Theodoric, posted 01-10-2022 3:34 PM drlove has not yet responded

  
drlove
Member
Posts: 146
Joined: 01-02-2022
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 383 of 480 (890773)
01-10-2022 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 380 by Theodoric
01-10-2022 3:22 PM


Well here is someone that is not a journalist saying the same thing

(add your choice of 50,000 links here on one side of the issue) But since you called this guy a liar, let's see the proof?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 380 by Theodoric, posted 01-10-2022 3:22 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 385 by Theodoric, posted 01-10-2022 3:30 PM drlove has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7148
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


(2)
Message 384 of 480 (890774)
01-10-2022 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 376 by drlove
01-10-2022 3:12 PM


Re: Covid-19 death rate between vaccinated vs un-vaccinated by nation.
And if Infowars wasn't trying to sow chaos they would point out what the UK government points out.

quote:
In the context of very high vaccine coverage in the population, even with a highly effective vaccine, it is expected that a large proportion of cases, hospitalisations and deaths would occur in vaccinated individuals, simply because a larger proportion of the population are vaccinated than unvaccinated and no vaccine is 100% effective.
This is especially true because vaccination has been prioritised in individuals who are more susceptible or more at risk of severe disease. Individuals in risk groups may also be more at risk of hospitalisation or death due to non-COVID-19 causes, and thus may be hospitalised or die with COVID-19 rather than because of COVID-19.

But who cares about actual facts.
Again you posted something without understanding the science, but it sure looked good.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 376 by drlove, posted 01-10-2022 3:12 PM drlove has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 392 by drlove, posted 01-10-2022 4:57 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7148
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 385 of 480 (890775)
01-10-2022 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 383 by drlove
01-10-2022 3:26 PM


Can you read?
As I said the wiki link has links to his lies. Do you know how to follow footnotes on Wikipedia?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 383 by drlove, posted 01-10-2022 3:26 PM drlove has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 393 by drlove, posted 01-10-2022 4:58 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7148
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 386 of 480 (890776)
01-10-2022 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 382 by drlove
01-10-2022 3:23 PM


Re: belief vs unbelief
Repeating a lie over and over does not make it true. Provide a source, or not, your choice.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 382 by drlove, posted 01-10-2022 3:23 PM drlove has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7148
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 387 of 480 (890778)
01-10-2022 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 382 by drlove
01-10-2022 3:23 PM


Re: belief vs unbelief
I love your response.
Basically it is.

Well the link I gave you to prove my claim might not be accurate, but my claim is true because, well because.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 382 by drlove, posted 01-10-2022 3:23 PM drlove has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2773
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


(1)
Message 388 of 480 (890779)
01-10-2022 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 371 by drlove
01-10-2022 2:57 PM


Re: Covid-19 death rate between vaccinated vs un-vaccinated by nation.
drlove writes:

If you are saying that true people of science are not fanatics on one side of the issue, I would agree. However, both sides claim science.

Nope, that doesn't resemble anything I said. Here it is again for the 3rd time.

Tanypteryx writes:

Yep, and I have not seen a single scientist claim vaccines are the only way out of the Covid pandemic. Effective masks, isolation, rapid testing and sanitary practices along with vaccines are all part of the strategy.

No wonder you have posted nothing but total bullshit here, you can't read.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 371 by drlove, posted 01-10-2022 2:57 PM drlove has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 395 by drlove, posted 01-10-2022 5:04 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

  
Porkncheese
Member
Posts: 170
From: Australia
Joined: 08-25-2017


Message 389 of 480 (890783)
01-10-2022 4:23 PM


Science vs pseudoscience
How can you tell if a claim is pseudoscientific?

- Censorship is the mark of a pseudoscience. Im shocked people are falling for this... Open inquiry is the foundation of science and everyone should know that free speech is a pillar of western democracy...
So why do they censor. Because they are scared of the truth. They know they will loose in a debate and censoring shuts down debate.
Our doctors here are being blackmailed. Not allowed to speak their minds because they will loose their medical licenses. This has lead to untold deaths which are not being properly counted

- Claims such as "the science is settled" and "follow the science" are red flags. Science is not a religion, it cannot claim infallibility and should be always open to enquiry. Its another method of shutting down debate

- "Experts say" is another red flag... Which experts. They don't tell us which experts, who they are or anything so you can't check their credentials and you cannot challenge the claim

- "Anti-vaxer" "conspiracy theorist" Attacking the people instead of addressing their argument is what people do when they have no valid argument. Such labels are used to dismiss the person as insane therefore shutting down debate

Debate is the keystone of science but it has been shut down. I would love to see a debate between a vax advocate and a vax skeptic but the advocates will not debate. Ive heard a few challenges from the pro choice experts but none of the pro vax experts will debate them


In the beginning God made the heavens and the earth

Replies to this message:
 Message 390 by Theodoric, posted 01-10-2022 4:31 PM Porkncheese has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7148
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


(6)
Message 390 of 480 (890786)
01-10-2022 4:31 PM
Reply to: Message 389 by Porkncheese
01-10-2022 4:23 PM


Re: Science vs pseudoscience
Why would an epidemiologist or a virologist debate someone that is not an expert? Science is not a debate. It is evidence and acceptance of the evidence by the experts in the field.
Laymen can and should just fuck off.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 389 by Porkncheese, posted 01-10-2022 4:23 PM Porkncheese has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 391 by Porkncheese, posted 01-10-2022 4:44 PM Theodoric has responded
 Message 394 by drlove, posted 01-10-2022 5:00 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
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