Dear fellow christian, judge not lest you be judged

quote:

---

He = Jesus
Read it in context, easier.

---

Uh, reading the passage in context still doesn't refer to Jesus, nor the Messiah. It simply says that the punishment God gave the serpent was that Eve, and the seed (offspring) of Eve will forever hate the snake and the snake will forever hate Eve and the offspring of Eve, and while her offspring will crush the heads of snakes, the snake will bite the heels of people.Jesus isn't in there at all.

quote:

---

"...and thou shalt bruise his heel."

---

Um, "his" is still referring to Eve's seed/offspring in the passage."And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."Nowhere is it implied that the passage, or the whole chapter, is speaking of the Messiah, or Jesus, or of any one person. It is only talking about Eve's seed/offspring, which I take to mean "all of humanity from this point on".Remember, the Serpent in the Garden of Eden isn't the Devil, or Satan, or anything like that. He is just a "beast of the field" according to Gen 3:1 and Gen 3:14.

quote:

---

Isaiah 53.

---

I just read that chapter.It is a long list of things like, "he will be an outcast", and "he will have much hardship", and "he will not be violent" and other terribly vague, general descriptions.That could also describe about a zillion other people.Is that the best you've got?

quote:

---

Christ was prophecised all over the bible.

---

Says you.

quote:

---

Try chapter 28, Isaiah, a corner stone, and with "stammering lips and another tongue" - precept after precept he will speak to "this people", a "cornerstone". A "light unto the Gentiles".

---

I just read that chapter and it seems to me to be talking about the LORD, not the Messiah.Why should I immediately think "Jesus of Nazareth" when you write any of those phrases above?

quote:

---

Why don't you read with eyes that are not closed Shraff?

---

My eyes aren't closed. I am honestly investigating the Bible verses for any prophecy which clearly and uambiguously points to this specific man, Jesus of Nazareth. These chapters and verses require WAY too much interpretation to be a real prediction.It seems to me that your eyes are closed to any conclusion that isn't the one that you already want it to be.

quote:

---

How about God with us, born of a virgin. I fear nothing shall satisfy.

---

Sorry, that's too easy to fake, or just make up later.Besides, that's a common prophecy about any number of "saviors" from other cultures.

quote:

---

So Jar saying "no one has shown where Christ is prophecised" is at best faulty logic. Even if his assertion is true, despite the obviousness of the references in Isaiah, Jar still preacheth an anti-bible statement, admitting he has no interest or belief in the bible, just like you.

---

He has plenty of interest in the Bible, and he believes in it too, just not literally, or as a history or science book.The Bible contains a great deal of wonderful guidence for how to live a moral and just life, which I assume you do your best to follow.However, it also contains a great deal of really horrible rules on how to treat women, children, homosexuals, slaves, etc., and other discriminatory and hurtful advice that I assume you disregard or consider outdated.So, does this mean that you do not follow the Bible or are not interested in it?

quote:

---

Yet just because a person might not have found the prophecy - doesn't mean it isn't there. Faulty logic, Miss Phd.

---

I never said it wasn't there.I just agreed with Jar that "no one has shown where Christ is prophecised". "Not being there" and "not shown" are two different things.

OK, Mike, if you just want to feel good and not look too close or with a critical mind, that's fine with me.That's not for me. I guess you would say that God made me more curious and less easily swayed than that.

quote:

---

Revelation 12:9 The great dragon was hurled down- that ancient serpent called the devil or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth and his angels with him.-Revelation 12:9

---

So, was it actually a dragon that God considered a "beast of the field?Oh, and do dragons crawl on their bellies and eat dust?I thought dragons had wings and flew, and have legs?

quote:

---

It's not what I've got it's what the prophets "got".

---

I'm not talking to the prophets. I'm talking to you.

quote:

---

There's many, many verses I'll have to get back to you on that though. I will eventually.

---

I'll be waiting patiently.

quote:

---

edit- I noticed mike referenced a few and you can really interpret a verse any way you want so maybe it's like you asking me to dig a ditch and refill it and dig it again over and over again.

---

Look, you are the one saying that Jesus is prophesized about in the Bible.I asked for examples that were clear and unambiguous, and those seem to be pretty difficult to come up with for you all.It's easy to interpret the Bible to mean anything you want it to mean, so unless you already want to "see" Jesus everytwhere, it's not going to be very convincing.

quote:

---

The crowd is self-righteous and think they know everything.

---

Mike, would you say that someone who says the following is self-righteous and thinks they know it all?: I would.Who said that?

quote:

---

UH, The devil obviously has many forms.

---

Why is this obvious?

quote:

---

Old Testament (Isaiah 40:3) says:
A voice of one calling: "In the desert prepare the way for the Lord; make straight in the wilderness a highway for our God."
New Testament (Matthew 3:1-2) says:
In those days John the Baptist came, preaching in the Desert of Judea, and saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near."

---

Neither one mentions Jesus specifically.

quote:

---

Old Testament (Micah 5:2) says:
"But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times."

​

New Testament (Matthew 2:1) says:
After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod...

---

Lots of people were born there, in that time.The OT prophecy is also exceedingly vague.

quote:

---

Eve's seed, define? Offspring right?

---

Right.

quote:

---

Well generations later a Man named Jesus comes along and...

---

quote:

---

Precisely.

​

Jesus human, seed, See?

---

Um, what? This prophecy was supposedly about Jesus, specifically.Is really about everybody, or is it specifically a prophecy about Jesus?Which one?

quote:

---

Schraff, I have the truth.

---

And because you believe this, you are self-righteous and a know it all. The rest of what you say is just spin.Those of us who doubt, by definition are saying that we DON'T know.We don't know, mike, us doubters. That means we are claiming LESS knowledge than you.You do claim to know the truth, so you are climing MORE knowledge that the doubters.I find it incredible that you hold to this contradiction.

quote:

---

Listen, it's quite clear that no prophecy will qualify to Shraff. Simple as that.

---

False.I want an unambiguous, clear prophecy which needs no interpretation and no requirement that I believe in Jesus to make it true.You know, kind of like what you expect out of real life.

quote:

---

No. I won't adhere to the rules in the other thread, they are designed to make prophecies out to be untrue.

---

Tell me, Mike, what would falsify any biblical prophecy for you?Are they falsifiable to you?

quote:

---

I fear that no prophecy from the bible will satisfy you because of your unbelief

---

So, what you are saying is that I would believe the prophecies if I already believed in them.Well, duh.What you are doing is asking people who don't believe to look at these prophecies as some kind of proof.However, if you have to believe in them being true before you even hear them, then they aren't really useful as a tool to convince unbelievers, are they?