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Author Topic:   Dear fellow christian, judge not lest you be judged
Phat
Member
Posts: 18353
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 20 of 241 (140477)
09-06-2004 7:47 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Trump won
09-06-2004 7:26 PM


Re: Great point! Don't be hate'n
Keep up the fight, Chris! BTW is your nickname "porcelain"?
Do you go to a Christian school? As for me? Im no judge. I just counsel hi risk detention center kids...
jar writes:
And the basis for my belief is his life, not the Bible. The Bible is but one way to know GOD and certainly not the surest route.
Well, to a good Catholic, teaching comes from the church. The church interprets the word. To a progressive mind such as yourself, jar, teaching comes from the progress of humanity in general, rather than the church alone. To a strict Protestant, teaching comes from the Bible as inspired Truth. In other words, the Word interprets the direction for the church rather than the church interpreting the direction of the religion. For me, I am a moderate on this issue. I DO believe in supernatural guidance, and I DO believe that the Bible can help. It can also be misused.Pure intellect is not the surest path for revealed knowledge. Often, a humble and contrite heart will trump an intellectual approach most times. It appears to me, however, that you possess both attributes, jar! BTW stick around, Chris. You can learn a lot about human nature in these forums.
This message has been edited by Phatboy, 09-06-2004 06:53 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Trump won, posted 09-06-2004 7:26 PM Trump won has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Trump won, posted 09-06-2004 7:54 PM Phat has not replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18353
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 36 of 241 (140980)
09-08-2004 2:39 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by joshua221
09-06-2004 9:14 PM


Re: Great point!
prophex writes:
How did they think that one up?
Some say that the Church has used doctorines to maintain control of their flock. Many doctorines had SOME common sense to them, however. Mary was thought to be pure because she carried Jesus for nine months....who would not be affected by THAT close of a touch? I will say that Mary was as close to good as a human can get. The theologians would say that close does not count. It is like a plug pulled from the wall. If the current is broken, it does not matter whether you are a millimeter from the source or a mile. You have broken your connection. Now....connection=communion. The Catholic says that Communion involves the whole package of church participation. The Protestant says that Communion is a unique and personal relationship with the Lord. Both are right. You can't get close by yourself alone. You need the fellow believers with you. Yet being in a group does not guarantee the experience...alone. The secular humanist takes it to the level of common sense. They say that religion by itself guarantees nothing. True communion for them is a meeting of minds for common improvement. Where the line is drawn, spiritually, is found in the first commandment. Communion begins with God. I agree with Mike the Wiz, however. I am not the one who declares that all feelgood humanists need to get to church or go to hell. Back on topic: Judge Not. I will say, with love, that MY Belief says that Communion begins with God. Capiche?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by joshua221, posted 09-06-2004 9:14 PM joshua221 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by joshua221, posted 09-08-2004 6:55 PM Phat has replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18353
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 43 of 241 (141080)
09-08-2004 7:18 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by joshua221
09-08-2004 6:55 PM


Controversies about Mary:My opinion
Hey, Prophex. Here is my opinion on Jesus Mom. The Bible says:
NIV writes:
Luke 1:26-37= In the sixth month, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin's name was Mary. The angel went to her and said, "Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you." Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. But the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, you have found favor with God. You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end."
"How will this be," Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin?"
The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be barren is in her sixth month. For nothing is impossible with God."
Of course, there is disagreement between denominations as to the status of Mary.
Catholic Encyclopedia writes:
The phrase "full of grace" is a translation of the Greek word kecharitomene. This word represents the proper name of the person being addressed by the angel, and it therefore expresses a characteristic quality of Mary. The traditional translation, "full of grace," is more accurate than the one found in many recent versions of the New Testament, which give something along the lines of "highly favored daughter." Mary was indeed a highly favored daughter of God, but the Greek implies more than that (and it never mentions the word for "daughter"). The grace given to Mary is at once permanent and of a unique kind. Kecharitomene is a perfect passive participle of charitoo, meaning "to fill or endow with grace." Since this term is in the perfect tense, it indicates a perfection of grace that is both intensive and extensive. So, the grace Mary enjoyed was not a result of the angel’s visit, and was only as "full" or strong or complete as possible at any given time, but it extended over the whole of her life, from conception onward. She was in a state of sanctifying grace from the first moment of her existence to have been called "full of grace."
The Catholics take it a step further than I do. Catholic Answers
Note that Mary was given no special treatment in the book of Acts.
NIV writes:
Acts 1:12-14= Then they returned to Jerusalem from the hill called the Mount of Olives, a Sabbath day's walk from the city. When they arrived, they went upstairs to the room where they were staying. Those present were Peter, John, James and Andrew; Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew; James son of Alphaeus and Simon the Zealot, and Judas son of James. They all joined together constantly in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers.
I think that Mary was no ordinary woman. How could she be? I will not go so far as to say she was sinless.
This message has been edited by Phatboy, 09-08-2004 06:32 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by joshua221, posted 09-08-2004 6:55 PM joshua221 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by joshua221, posted 09-08-2004 9:01 PM Phat has not replied

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