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Author
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Topic: Please give me so-called "proof" of Jesus or God.
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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 507 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: 03-29-2004
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Message 1 of 320 (118702)
06-25-2004 3:56 PM
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in another thread, steve writes: ...there's plenty of proof for Jesus. Please treat me as if I am a native that's been living all my life in the deep jungles of the Congo. Tell me the so-called proof or evidence so that you can convert me.
The Laminator
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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 507 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: 03-29-2004
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Message 3 of 320 (119330)
06-27-2004 10:39 PM
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Bump. You Christian fundies are the worst debaters I have ever seen. You blabber on and on on how much "proof" you have of the existence of Jesus and then you avoid completely my very very simple question...request. Please give me some proof or evidence of Jesus, please!
The Laminator
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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 507 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: 03-29-2004
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Message 5 of 320 (119371)
06-28-2004 1:35 AM
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Reply to: Message 4 by almeyda
06-28-2004 12:11 AM
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almeyda writes: Before i can reply i need to know what you mean exactly. Are you simply looking for proof of his existence?.
I'm a native in the deep jungles of the Congo. You want to convert me. Before I give all my gods and my traditions, I need to at least hear some convincing scientific, non-personal, objective evidence or proof (if you want to call it). No, reading out of a book is not convincing.
The Laminator
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 4 by almeyda, posted 06-28-2004 12:11 AM | | almeyda has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 8 by custard, posted 06-28-2004 3:29 AM | | coffee_addict has not replied | | | Message 182 by Phat, posted 07-12-2004 3:45 AM | | coffee_addict has replied |
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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 507 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: 03-29-2004
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I forgot to mention the fact that I've been to Congo University and got a Ph.D. in biology and a Ph.D. in Physics. I am currently working on my Ph.D. in Philosophy. So, no. Insect swarms and sickness do not scare me. I know what causes them.
The Laminator
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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 507 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: 03-29-2004
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Message 15 of 320 (119524)
06-28-2004 1:11 PM
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Reply to: Message 9 by almeyda
06-28-2004 6:00 AM
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almeyda writes: Well young man i believe our belief is true because our saviour rose from the dead and appeared to many many people. While Muhammad died on June8,632 and remained dead.
Says who?
Also Muhammad copied alot from our book the Bible, "well in our version Jesus did this and wasnt this etc". So Islam seems to be a copycat. (Im speaking to a congonese man BTW).
Speaking as a double going on to triple doctorate graduate, I need more than simple assertions and accusation of plagarism.
Also Muhammad did no miracles and therefore had no divine evidence of his claims. Also has incited rebellion in many believers. His only claims came from his writings in the Quran.
Um... you could say the same thing about Jesus. At least what's written in the Koran was written during Muhammad's time. The first book of the new testament was written at least 40 years after Jesus's death by someone that never met Jesus. Being a christian, you should have already known this little known fact.
Confucius died 479bc and remained dead. Many of his writings were simply philosophical.
So? For the record, confucius never claimed to be the son of god. He claimed to be a philosopher. It's like saying Einstein died and remained dead... many of his writings were simply scientific...
Joseph Smith of the Mormons is a deciever who abused the trust of his followers. Claimed to be godlike yet produced no evidence. You might not understand what i mean next but it is strong evidence against this Mormons claims. The historicity of the Book of Mormon has been flatly denied by representitives of the Smithsonian Instituttion, and the 'Book of Abraham' in Pearl Of Great Price was proven fraudulent by a Mormon expert in Egyptology. The failed prophecies have also cause problems for the church. Mr Smith died in 1844, and remained dead.
At least Smith left behind more evidence of his existence than Jesus.
Charles Russel of Jehovas Witness died in 1916 and remained dead. He was not able to establish a credible reputation with people outside the Watchtower Society. And record shows he decieved people and misused their goodwill for his own benefit. A failure of prophecies is also a problem for Jehovas Witness. Many included Jesus 'invisible' second coming in 1874, and the end of the world in 1914. The list goes on. So we can see that when we start breaking down many religions we can see how many can be dismissed with not just what i have said but with much much more diligent study of each belief. Anyway if you are still interested in a continuance of world religions and what they teach please dont hesitate to ask!.
How does comparing what your religious beliefs with others "prove" your validity over others and the existence of Jesus? You are assuming that at least one religion must be right, therefore by proving the others to be false, you prove your religion by the method of elimination. I'm sorry, but it doesn't work that way. Have you more to say?
The Laminator
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 9 by almeyda, posted 06-28-2004 6:00 AM | | almeyda has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 71 by sfs, posted 06-30-2004 4:34 PM | | coffee_addict has replied | | | Message 282 by Phat, posted 08-30-2004 11:21 PM | | coffee_addict has replied |
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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 507 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: 03-29-2004
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Message 16 of 320 (119525)
06-28-2004 1:14 PM
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Reply to: Message 9 by almeyda
06-28-2004 6:00 AM
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almeyda writes: Well young man i believe our belief is true because our saviour rose from the dead and appeared to many many people.
More people have claimed to have seen little grey aliens than the people that claimed to have seen Jesus after death. What the heck does that prove? Absolutely zero-reno.
The Laminator
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 9 by almeyda, posted 06-28-2004 6:00 AM | | almeyda has not replied |
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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 507 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: 03-29-2004
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Message 20 of 320 (119717)
06-28-2004 8:49 PM
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Reply to: Message 19 by jar
06-28-2004 8:02 PM
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Re: There isn't any proof Jesus ever existed
jar writes: but if you are serious about this I would be happy to try to explain why I believe in Jesus.
Yes, I am serious. However, could you wait a day or 2 before giving your explanation? I want to give the fundies enough chances to give their so-called proof. To be honest, I am trying to demonstrate a point. It is obvious to everyone that there is absolutely no "proof" or "evidence" of the existence of Jesus. However, fundies seem to have the habit of waving around false facts such as the existence of "proof" of the existence of Jesus. I have been annoyed by this for a very long time. I would die a happy man when the fundies willingly admit that their beliefs are due to nothing more than pure blind faith, nothing more.
The Laminator
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 19 by jar, posted 06-28-2004 8:02 PM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 21 by jar, posted 06-28-2004 8:53 PM | | coffee_addict has not replied | | | Message 22 by custard, posted 06-28-2004 9:37 PM | | coffee_addict has replied |
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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 507 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: 03-29-2004
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Message 32 of 320 (119751)
06-28-2004 11:29 PM
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Reply to: Message 22 by custard
06-28-2004 9:37 PM
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Re: There isn't any proof Jesus ever existed
custard writes: Do you mean existence as an actual person? If so, Jesus is mentioned by Josephus. -nm, re-read your posts. You mean proof of Jesus as a divine entity, right?
I kinda meant both, actually. I suppose you could take this as somewhat similar to the comparason between the historical and the biblical Jesus.
The Laminator
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 22 by custard, posted 06-28-2004 9:37 PM | | custard has not replied |
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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 507 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: 03-29-2004
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PeriferaliiFocust writes: I don't think the Christian church would have evolved if his simple existence was questionable or possibly fictional.
So, are you saying that Zeus, Apollo, and every other olympian god existed? The greeks did hold onto their religious beliefs about the olympian gods for a very long time you know.
The Laminator
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 50 by Hangdawg13, posted 06-29-2004 11:35 PM | | coffee_addict has not replied | | | Message 56 by custard, posted 06-30-2004 3:02 AM | | coffee_addict has not replied |
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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 507 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: 03-29-2004
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Re: There isn't any proof Jesus ever existed
Hangdawg13 writes: You do not consider the prophecies that Jesus fulfilled even slightly significant?
Saids who? Oh yeah, the same book that is in question.
The Laminator
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 51 by Hangdawg13, posted 06-30-2004 1:11 AM | | Hangdawg13 has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 53 by Hangdawg13, posted 06-30-2004 2:16 AM | | coffee_addict has replied |
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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 507 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: 03-29-2004
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Re: There isn't any proof Jesus ever existed
Hangdawg13 writes: Well, when several authors describe an event hundreds of years before it happens, that tells us something.
Have you ever been to a magic show before? Magicians can pretty much repeat any supposed miracle performed by Jesus. Have you ever considered that, if there really was a figure named Jesus, he could have tried to perform those miracles that were written in the OT? Thus, we come to the question. Did Jesus (if he existed) perform the miracles because they were written or were the miracles written because Jesus was going to perform them?
The Laminator
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 53 by Hangdawg13, posted 06-30-2004 2:16 AM | | Hangdawg13 has not replied |
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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 507 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: 03-29-2004
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Message 70 of 320 (120455)
06-30-2004 4:05 PM
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Reply to: Message 63 by almeyda
06-30-2004 7:11 AM
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To everyone: Please refrain from responding any further to almeyda. I want a one on one with almeyda. Let's see if I can squeeze some real juice out of almeyda.
almeyda writes: Martyrdom for a belief is not unique, but what kind of person would die for a known lie?
Would you say, then, that there was actually an alien space ship hidden behind Hale-bopp comet and that it was going to take the members of the heaven's gate cult to their paradise planet? Would you say, then, that Jim Jones was actually the messiah and he had healing powers? Please answer the questions directly. Consider me as a 13 yr old who cannot decipher poetic ramblings very well.
The Laminator
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 63 by almeyda, posted 06-30-2004 7:11 AM | | almeyda has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 115 by almeyda, posted 07-04-2004 12:43 AM | | coffee_addict has not replied |
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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 507 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: 03-29-2004
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Message 72 of 320 (120460)
06-30-2004 4:38 PM
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Reply to: Message 71 by sfs
06-30-2004 4:34 PM
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Depends on which person or which book your refer to I guess. I got the 40 figure from the fundies during a debate on biblical stuff some months ago. I think it was Prof Monte that told me that, not sure though.
The Laminator
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 71 by sfs, posted 06-30-2004 4:34 PM | | sfs has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 74 by sfs, posted 06-30-2004 4:45 PM | | coffee_addict has replied |
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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 507 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: 03-29-2004
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Message 76 of 320 (120516)
06-30-2004 7:46 PM
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Reply to: Message 74 by sfs
06-30-2004 4:45 PM
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sfs writes: Are you sure this wasn't the time to the first gospel account? It would fit much better.
Probably. I'm not a bible basher, so I can't tell you for sure. I'll have to look over my sources to get an answer. Unfortunately, they're still in my suitcases (haven't unpacked yet). Based on your knowledge then, when was the first thing in the NT written?
The Laminator
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 74 by sfs, posted 06-30-2004 4:45 PM | | sfs has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 89 by sfs, posted 07-02-2004 9:04 AM | | coffee_addict has replied |
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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 507 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: 03-29-2004
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Message 78 of 320 (120588)
07-01-2004 3:12 AM
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Reply to: Message 77 by Zachariah
07-01-2004 1:55 AM
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Re: a little bit of interesting news Lam
Introducing untested, unvalidated, unconfirmed, or unrealistic evidence ain't going to help your case one bit. I'm asking for some kind of solid evidence that you fundies pride yourselves everyday with. Is that too much to ask?
The Laminator
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 77 by Zachariah, posted 07-01-2004 1:55 AM | | Zachariah has replied |
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