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Author
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Topic: Please give me so-called "proof" of Jesus or God.
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 17 of 320 (119532)
06-28-2004 1:22 PM
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Reply to: Message 9 by almeyda
06-28-2004 6:00 AM
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Almeyda asserts: Well young man i believe our belief is true because our saviour rose from the dead and appeared to many many people.
While I believe that to be true, do you have any proof of that. Have you ever seen (one of my favorite movies of all time) Orfeu Negro?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 9 by almeyda, posted 06-28-2004 6:00 AM | | almeyda has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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There isn't any proof Jesus ever existed
but if you are serious about this I would be happy to try to explain why I believe in Jesus.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: There isn't any proof Jesus ever existed
No problem. Can I suggest that when you are ready, we make it a dialog as opposed to a debate? And perhaps a seperate thread might be appropriate.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 23 of 320 (119722)
06-28-2004 9:40 PM
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Reply to: Message 22 by custard
06-28-2004 9:37 PM
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Re: There isn't any proof Jesus ever existed
Well, IIRC, Flavius Josephus wasn't even born until 37 AD.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 22 by custard, posted 06-28-2004 9:37 PM | | custard has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 24 by custard, posted 06-28-2004 9:57 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 27 of 320 (119729)
06-28-2004 10:18 PM
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Reply to: Message 24 by custard
06-28-2004 9:57 PM
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Re: There isn't any proof Jesus ever existed
For more on Thallus, check out this link..
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 24 by custard, posted 06-28-2004 9:57 PM | | custard has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 34 of 320 (119881)
06-29-2004 8:11 AM
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Reply to: Message 33 by Mammuthus
06-29-2004 6:07 AM
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Why add complexity without need?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 33 by Mammuthus, posted 06-29-2004 6:07 AM | | Mammuthus has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 37 of 320 (119896)
06-29-2004 8:44 AM
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Reply to: Message 35 by Mammuthus
06-29-2004 8:35 AM
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Is there some reason to suspect a composite? For example, did those acts alleged to have been performed by Jesus take place in a way that would be impossible for a single individual? Did they cover too long a time span (for example, the legend that Arthur participated in the battle at Baden), or in places beyond the resonable travel area of an idividual or at multiple locations at one time? Since the tale of Jesus is relativelly compact, takes place in a very small geographic area, is of a normal lifespan and does not contain any glaring requirements for him to have been in two places at one time, there is no reason that I can see to add the addditional complexity of multiple attribution.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 35 by Mammuthus, posted 06-29-2004 8:35 AM | | Mammuthus has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 39 of 320 (119930)
06-29-2004 10:11 AM
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Reply to: Message 38 by Mammuthus
06-29-2004 9:56 AM
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While it could well be added, there is simply no need, as I said, to add the additional complexity. How would adding the issue of multiple attribution make the case for Jesus existence any better? As a general principle of science, given two theories that each adequately explain the observations, usually the simpler theory is prefered.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 38 by Mammuthus, posted 06-29-2004 9:56 AM | | Mammuthus has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 41 of 320 (119934)
06-29-2004 10:23 AM
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Reply to: Message 40 by Mammuthus
06-29-2004 10:17 AM
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Well, hang loose. Lam has said he would like to persue that very point and so would I. But for now, let's wait and see if any of those who claim that there is proof for Jesus existence can step up and provide same. see Message 20
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 40 by Mammuthus, posted 06-29-2004 10:17 AM | | Mammuthus has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 145 of 320 (122380)
07-06-2004 12:28 PM
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Reply to: Message 144 by Mammuthus
07-06-2004 12:18 PM
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As annoying as I find fundies (or anyone else) who tries to tell me what to believe in or that they possess the truth because it is "self-evident" Well, not always.
quote:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 144 by Mammuthus, posted 07-06-2004 12:18 PM | | Mammuthus has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: a little bit of interesting news Lam
Lam asserts
Christianity brainwashes little kids, who are the most vulnerable to suggestions, by forcing the "goddunit" doctrine into their vulnerable minds. As the product of a Christian Church School basic education I can testify that that is not always the case.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Education and Proof (slightly OT)
but IMHO, important. There are several ways to educate. In one, facts are taught. You learn those facts and succeed by regurgitating that which you were fed. Garbage in-garbage out. Another method is to teach the skills necessary for analysis, discrimination and abstraction. In that case you succeed by developing a concept and being able to support it when challenged. If you cannot support it, you change or modify your concept. But the end result is a concept, a belief, that has been tested against other points of view and objective reality. When Christianity is taught using the first method you get poor results. However using the second method often produces an entirely different final product.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Education and Proof (slightly OT)
It has little to do with Religion, lots to do with economics and philosophy. When you begin with the concept that you already have the answer you preclude the question. Let me know when you are ready to discuss why your topic is actually the wrong question.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 201 of 320 (130188)
08-03-2004 11:23 PM
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Reply to: Message 200 by almeyda
08-03-2004 11:02 PM
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Re: Bible is proof
What Jewish scholor would say that the Bible is not the true history of Israel? Actually, today, most of them would say that. Almost every single event described in the Bible has failed when the archeological data comes in. Joshua conquered a whole bunch of towns that went there. Even the United Monarchy, the period of David and Solomon has not been evidenced by the findings over the last three decades.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 200 by almeyda, posted 08-03-2004 11:02 PM | | almeyda has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Bible is proof
Well, to talk about the Jerico and Ai Myth come on over to This thread. So far almost none of the events in the Bible have been proven. There is no evidence that the Exodus as described in the Bible ever happened. There is lots of evidence that the Flood never happened. The Bible is a map. That's all. A map. It is a guide and one of the sources provided to lead us towards the answers to the Why. But it is not a science book. It is not a history book. The Map is not the Territory?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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