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Member (Idle past 507 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Please give me so-called "proof" of Jesus or God. | |||||||||||||||||||
ramoss Member (Idle past 642 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
Well, Jesus didn't actually fullfilly the prophecies needed for being the Jewish Messiah, you know.
And, of course, when ti comes to the 'prophecies' that are claimed by gospels, anybody can write someone to make it appear to fullfill prophecies, particularly when they have a book that that claim predicts it, and quote mine to make him appear to fullfill them. Matthew in particular did this, since many of the 'prophecies' are mistranslations,items taken out of context and a miss understanding of the Jewish scripture. Matthew didn't even get the geography of the region correct in some places.
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ramoss Member (Idle past 642 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
However, we do have indication of important figures in Jerusalum at the time. Philo Judaes of Alexandra, who was very connected with jersualum, and discussed the Essenes, and Pontious Pilate to a large extent, did not mention Jesus.
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ramoss Member (Idle past 642 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
Well, first point.. none fo those were contemporary. The earliest was Josephus, and antiquties 18 is very suspect.
Tactillus is wriging in the second century, and chrustus is a Greek name, not Christ. The talmud was being written after 150 C.E to about 400 C.E. There were many Yeshuas, and if you notice, it said 'hanged' not 'cruxified'. I believe this one was refering to one that was executed for sourcery 100 years before the "CHrist" myth.
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ramoss Member (Idle past 642 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
You are, of course, assuming there were eye witnesses. If it was a story, why then, of course, there would not be eye witnesses.
I am sure that if any dead people started walking around Jerusalum at the time of someone's execution, it would be noted in more places on than the gospels.
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ramoss Member (Idle past 642 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
NOT THIS strawman again.
People die for the strangest beliefs. I mean, you had group of people kill themselves because they thought they were going on a UFO behind hale bop. You got a group of 19 idiots using planes as missiles.
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ramoss Member (Idle past 642 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
1) So what?? If someone claims to be god doesn't mean it is true. If a set of writings proclaims a fictional person said they were god, doesn't make that fictional person in existance either.
2) There is no place in the new testamant that words attributed to Jesus (In context) that said he was God. S
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ramoss Member (Idle past 642 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
You are, of course, asssuming that it was matthew, John and Luke that wrote it. However, there is no evidence that the person to whom the work is attributed actually wrote those texts.. and Luke has made it quite clear that He/(she??) was writing from other works, and was not an eye witness..
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ramoss Member (Idle past 642 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
The Ossurary of James has been proven to be a modern fake. Not only was the patenia cut through, but when they went to arrest the 'owner' of it (he had another 'maginficent' find that also was a forgery) , they even discovered stencils for forgery work in his apartmetn.
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ramoss Member (Idle past 642 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
The problem with that arabic translaton is that it is fromt he 10th century, a full 600 years after the first mention of the one that is considered a forgery. It is from a strongly muslim country, that might not of wanted the overtly Christian meaning to be there.
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ramoss Member (Idle past 642 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
Let see.. we want to know if the Bible is just a bunch of stories, or has some truth to it.
So, you quote from the bible. That is rather circular, you know.
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ramoss Member (Idle past 642 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
Except for the Gospels, and the apparent forgery in Josephus, could you ponit me to a FIRST century docuement about Jesus??
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ramoss Member (Idle past 642 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
And the objective evidence you have of this is??
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ramoss Member (Idle past 642 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
Well, you know that calling him part of the 'crack pot' community, particularly when his evidence is so highly docuemented, and verifiable.
What you are doing is the logical fallacy known as 'ad homenin'. Earl Doghtery has a lot of educational credentials, and has clearly docuemented things. You might not agree with his conclusions, but he docuemented his items very well.
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ramoss Member (Idle past 642 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
On the contrary.
One one of them (Joesphus), wrote in teh first century (and at that , 60 years after the alledged incident). The passage people are concerned about apparently is a forgery. The rest probably got their information FROm the christians..
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ramoss Member (Idle past 642 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
However, even if it is not, you still have to remember
1) Joesphus was writing 60 years after the alledged events 2) The phrasology of the statement about james is EXACTLY the same astwo of the gospels. The source, if Josephus wrote it or not, seems to have been the gospels. It is likely, due to the fact it is exactly the same as the christian text when refering to james, that it was a copier's gloss.
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