Please give me so-called "proof" of Jesus or God.

Before i can reply i need to know what you mean exactly. Are you simply looking for proof of his existence?.

Well young man i believe our belief is true because our saviour rose from the dead and appeared to many many people. While Muhammad died on June8,632 and remained dead. Also Muhammad copied alot from our book the Bible, "well in our version Jesus did this and wasnt this etc". So Islam seems to be a copycat. (Im speaking to a congonese man BTW). Also Muhammad did no miracles and therefore had no divine evidence of his claims. Also has incited rebellion in many believers. His only claims came from his writings in the Quran. Confucius died 479bc and remained dead. Many of his writings were simply philosophical. Joseph Smith of the Mormons is a deciever who abused the trust of his followers. Claimed to be godlike yet produced no evidence. You might not understand what i mean next but it is strong evidence against this Mormons claims. The historicity of the Book of Mormon has been flatly denied by representitives of the Smithsonian Instituttion, and the 'Book of Abraham' in Pearl Of Great Price was proven fraudulent by a Mormon expert in Egyptology. The failed prophecies have also cause problems for the church. Mr Smith died in 1844, and remained dead.Charles Russel of Jehovas Witness died in 1916 and remained dead. He was not able to establish a credible reputation with people outside the Watchtower Society. And record shows he decieved people and misused their goodwill for his own benefit. A failure of prophecies is also a problem for Jehovas Witness. Many included Jesus 'invisible' second coming in 1874, and the end of the world in 1914. The list goes on. So we can see that when we start breaking down many religions we can see how many can be dismissed with not just what i have said but with much much more diligent study of each belief. Anyway if you are still interested in a continuance of world religions and what they teach please dont hesitate to ask!.

Do you know how many geniuses have lived in our world?. No that is not a miracle.

Many of the eye-witnesses were still alive when the manuscripts containining such claims were circulating. If those letters and manuscripts had been false, the eye-witnesses would have denounced them as frauds. But the scriptures were widely accepted as historical and fact. There still exists more than 24,000 of these ancient manuscript copies, in spite of centuries of efforts to eradicate the christian scriptures. Compare this to the number of surviving manuscripts of some of the great works of secular history, such as The Gallic Wars of Julius Caesar. Only 10 copies remain of his work, yet its historicity is never questioned. Or Plato, yet the New Testament has thousands of manuscript copies yet there seems to be a problem there. The historical accounts in the post above me provide sufficient evidence even with ignoring the New Testament. People though dont want Jesus to exist, just like they dont want the Bible to be the word of God. False prophets, messiahs were always killed, or called frauds. The ressurection itself would have been debunked in ancient times if there was a reference to Christs body being found rotten in a tomb. All the other founders of religions have had there bodies in tombs. Jesus was accepted as the messiah for the things he did. Some people try to base the fraud on the eye-witnesses not being trustworthy. If people want to question that we can see the standard legal witness test used throughout law courts in the world. These men hated lying, they lived by the idea that Jesus was the way and the truth.The Encyclopedia Britanica (15 edition,1974), concerning the testimony of the many independent secular accounts of Jesus of Nazareth, records:"These independent accounts prove that in ancient times even the opponents of Christianity never doubted the historicity of Jesus, which was disputed for the first time and on inadequate grounds by several authors at the end of the 18th, during the 19th, and at the beginning of the 20th centuries"To deny the historicity of Christ is to deny the existence of Aristole, Cicero, Alexander, Julius Caesar, Buddha, Confucius, Muhammad or Napoleon Bonaparte because they are all are part of history. Yet Jesus has made the biggest impact on our world then all of these.

Martyrdom for a belief is not unique, but what kind of person would die for a known lie?. Historical records and reports about the disciples indicated they died cruel deaths. James was stoned, Peter was crucified upside down, Paul was beheaded, Thaddaeus was killed with arrows, Matthew and James (Zebedee) faced sword deaths and other believers were crucified. Then we have the edict were anyone found with a Bible was killed. Underneath Rome lie some 900miles of caves where over 7 million christians, executed for there beliefs were buried. Then you have Paul, a leading executor of christians who gave up wealth and power upon seeing the ressurection. Then going on to write most of the New Testament. The ressurected Christ was witnessed by more than 500 people (1 Corinthians 15:6). Many were nonbelievers who commited there lives soon after. Christians were so moved that they were willing to die for Christ.

God. Jesus proclaimed to be God.

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Poppycock!
No such edict ever existed

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Actually, you would be wrong. In A.D 303, Diocletian issued an edict to stop christians from worshipping and to destroy their scriptures "...an imperial letter was everywhere promulgated, ordering the razing of the churches to the ground and destruction by fire of the scriptures and proclaiming that those who held high positions would lose all civil rights, while those in households, if they persisted in their profession of christianity, would be deprived of their liberty"

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Nonsense - where do you GET this stuff?

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A great fire ravaged Rome in 64 C.E., destroying about a fourth of the city. The rumor circulated that Nero was responsible and, according to Roman historian Tacitus, Nero tried to protect himself by placing the blame on the Christians. (The Annals, XV, XLIV) Mass arrests followed, and Christians as well as those suspected of being Christians were tortured, put to death in large numbers, some even being burned alive in public. This appears to have marked the start of a great wave of persecution, not from religious opposers, but from political sources bent on exterminating the Christian congregation. The historian Tacitus writes of Neros persecution of Christians in the first century "An immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing [Rome], but of hatred against mankind."It was by means of endurance that the early Christians conquered persecution during a period of about 280 years when the Roman Empire persecuted them off and on. A.D. 235 the sixth oppression fell upon the Christians during the reign of Emperor Maximinus. This time numberless Christian victims were slain without any trial whatsoever and their bodies were often piled in heaps without so much as a decent burial. It is said that this persecution stemmed from Maximinus great hatred for his predecessor, Alexander, who had sheltered the Christians. Under Decius A.D. 249, the seventh persecution was inaugurated. This assault spread throughout the empire, spared neither age nor sex, and contrived to introduce torture unique to all that had gone before it...Thus began an era of ten major persecutions against Christians by various emperors of Rome over a period of nearly three hundred years.

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Would you say, then, that there was actually an alien space ship hidden behind Hale-bopp comet and that it was going to take the members of the heaven's gate cult to their paradise planet?

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Would you say, then, that Jim Jones was actually the messiah and he had healing powers?

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Please answer the questions directly. Consider me as a 13 yr old who cannot decipher poetic ramblings very well.

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Lam im not sure what your trying to ask me here. Please explain it to me a bit more.

I wrote this in post 60, yet only received 1 reply, i would appreciate more.

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Many of the eye-witnesses were still alive when the manuscripts containining such claims were circulating. If those letters and manuscripts had been false, the eye-witnesses would have denounced them as frauds. But the scriptures were widely accepted as historical and fact. There still exists more than 24,000 of these ancient manuscript copies, in spite of centuries of efforts to eradicate the christian scriptures. Compare this to the number of surviving manuscripts of some of the great works of secular history, such as The Gallic Wars of Julius Caesar. Only 10 copies remain of his work, yet its historicity is never questioned. Or Plato, yet the New Testament has thousands of manuscript copies yet there seems to be a problem there. The historical accounts in the post above me provide sufficient evidence even with ignoring the New Testament. People though dont want Jesus to exist, just like they dont want the Bible to be the word of God. False prophets, messiahs were always killed, or called frauds. The ressurection itself would have been debunked in ancient times if there was a reference to Christs body being found rotten in a tomb. All the other founders of religions have had there bodies in tombs. Jesus was accepted as the messiah for the things he did. Some people try to base the fraud on the eye-witnesses not being trustworthy. If people want to question that we can see the standard legal witness test used throughout law courts in the world. These men hated lying, they lived by the idea that Jesus was the way and the truth.
The Encyclopedia Britanica (15 edition,1974), concerning the testimony of the many independent secular accounts of Jesus of Nazareth, records:

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"These independent accounts prove that in ancient times even the opponents of Christianity never doubted the historicity of Jesus, which was disputed for the first time and on inadequate grounds by several authors at the end of the 18th, during the 19th, and at the beginning of the 20th centuries"

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To deny the historicity of Christ is to deny the existence of Aristole, Cicero, Alexander, Julius Caesar, Buddha, Confucius, Muhammad or Napoleon Bonaparte because they are all are part of history. Yet Jesus has made the biggest impact on our world then all of these.

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1- Flavius Josephus (died 97AD) who wrote
At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus. And his conduct was good and (he) was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And those who had become his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion and that he was alive, accordingly, he was perhaps the messiah concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders.

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2- Tacitus (115AD)

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Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberious at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome...

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3- Tetullian (200 AD)

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Tiberius accordingly, in whose days the Christian name made its entry into the world, having himself received intelligence from Palestine of events which had clearly shown the truth of Christ's divinity, brought the matter before the senate, with his own decision in favor of Christ. The senate, because it had not given the approval itself, rejected his proposal. Caesar held to his opinion, threatening wrath against all accusers of the Christians.

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4- Talmud-Sanhedrin43

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On the eve of the Passover, Yeshu was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, 'He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostasy. Any one who can say anything in his favor, let him come forward and plead on his behalf. But since nothing was brought forward in his favor, he was hanged on the eve of the Passover.

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Great post. This alone provides sufficient evidence for his existence. Let alone all the other evidence there is. It really is a bias against Jesus to deny his existence. The skeptics do not want to believe no matter what the evidence is. "These independent accounts prove that in ancient times even the opponents of Christianity never doubted the historicity of Jesus, which was disputed for the first time and on inadequate grounds by several authors at the end of the 18th, during the 19th, and at the beginning of the 20th centuries"

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Why not resort to the koran?

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Why would we trust the Koran over the Bible when the Koran copied so much from the Bible and simply changed it around and added more into it. Moreover it denied Christ as God which is the worst sin of all. Muhammad was born in 570A.D, such a long time after the men of the holy Bible were told to watch for those that will deny Christ. And of course the always popular argument. (Actually the most hated on this board). Jesus resurected from the dead. The religious founders of all other religions died and remained dead.

This is why the Bible being truth will never be found by so many of you. Because the prophecys about Jesus that were all fullfilled and Jesus resurecting which was the reason behind christianity becoming the biggest religion will never be accepted because todays society of course see the prophecys as faked even though the people of that day werent stupid and did not like fake prophecys and fake prophets, and the resurection cannot be believed also because its only written in the Bible even though the enemies of Jesus acknowlegdged what he did. The doubting of Jesus only started in the 18th century through to today. But the fact is everything in the Bible did happen. What Jewish scholor would say that the Bible is not the true history of Israel? The scriptures were accepted because they came with such divine and inspired presence. Not because they were power hungry or whatever you people call religious people.

The Bible is the most widely circulated book in the world, it has been published in more languages than any other book, the New Testament has over 24,000 ancient manuscripts while coming in second is Homer Iliad with only 643, one of the forums in this website is is the Bible the word of God not which religious textbook is correct or is the Koran the word of God, its all about the Bible. No other book gets so chopped, knifed, sifted, scrutinized, villified, attacked upon chapter, line and tenet. Jesus Christ without money and arms conquered more millions than Alexander, Caesar, Muhammad and Napolean. He spoke words of life that were never spoken of before or since. Without even writing a single line he produced more pens in motion and furnished more themes for sermons, orations, discussions, learned volumes, works of art and songs of praise then the whole army of great men in ancient times and modern times. So why all the fuss over a nobody from Nazareth? His claim of deity was proved through the miracles and resurection which all of you willingly reject even though without the resurection or miracles. Nobody would have even heard of Jesus Christ and we would not be discussing this topic.