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Why not resort to the koran?

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Why would we trust the Koran over the Bible when the Koran copied so much from the Bible and simply changed it around and added more into it. Moreover it denied Christ as God which is the worst sin of all. Muhammad was born in 570A.D, such a long time after the men of the holy Bible were told to watch for those that will deny Christ. And of course the always popular argument. (Actually the most hated on this board). Jesus resurected from the dead. The religious founders of all other religions died and remained dead.

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Jesus resurected from the dead. The religious founders of all other religions died and remained dead.

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Is there any evidence that Jesus was resurrected, outside of the Bible? Are there any firsthand accounts, written less than half a century after Jesus' death, that he even existed? Did any of the founders of other religions say they were coming back in the first place? Why should they be expected to return?

I think that the Bible is excellent proof for Jesus. Why do you say that it was not written by eye witnesses? It was! Matthew was an apostle, Mark was the recorder for Peter who was another apostle, and John was even one of Jesus' Inner three! That is plenty of eye witness testimony.If these people made up stuff about Jesus, why would they be willing to die for it? People only die for their beliefs if they believe them. If these writers made up these beliefs, they would obviously know that they were false, even if others believed what they said. When the pressure and torture came, atleast one would have admitted they made this stuff up in order to stop the torture and escape death. Therefore, comparisons with Jones, HalBopp etc don't work. They work only with other followers of Jesus dying for their beliefs.Also, there were many eye-witnesses to his resurrection. 500 people saw him at one time - mass hallucination would not be possible for this. Doubting Thomas TOUCHED Jesus and felt the wounds in his hands and side. Did anyone TOUCH Elvis? And eat a meal with him? And have Elvis suddenly appear in a locked room? There are numerous other sightings of Jesus as well.

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If you say there are no absolutes, I ask you, are you absolutely sure about that?

You are using biblical stories to prove biblical stories. That is circular reasoning.As for the authors of the gospels...Matt, Mark, Luke, and John are the traditional, but not necessarily the historic authors.

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Asgara
"Embrace the pain, spank your inner moppet, whatever....but get over it"http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com
http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com

This is why the Bible being truth will never be found by so many of you. Because the prophecys about Jesus that were all fullfilled and Jesus resurecting which was the reason behind christianity becoming the biggest religion will never be accepted because todays society of course see the prophecys as faked even though the people of that day werent stupid and did not like fake prophecys and fake prophets, and the resurection cannot be believed also because its only written in the Bible even though the enemies of Jesus acknowlegdged what he did. The doubting of Jesus only started in the 18th century through to today. But the fact is everything in the Bible did happen. What Jewish scholor would say that the Bible is not the true history of Israel? The scriptures were accepted because they came with such divine and inspired presence. Not because they were power hungry or whatever you people call religious people.

Actually, today, most of them would say that.Almost every single event described in the Bible has failed when the archeological data comes in. Joshua conquered a whole bunch of towns that went there. Even the United Monarchy, the period of David and Solomon has not been evidenced by the findings over the last three decades.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Umm.... where did you get this? Archeology has done nothing but PROVE the historical accuracy of the Bible. Umm... the ruins of Jericho exists and has been examined many times, and the findings totally agree with Biblical accounts. Just because other towns have not been discovered yet don't mean they don't exist under the dirt somewhere. I quote from Archaeology and the Old Testament (wich has tons of other good material as well) Archeology has done nothing but prove the accuracy of the Bible.

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If you say there are no absolutes, I ask you, are you absolutely sure about that?

Look. You want proof that Jesus existed, so I give you the Bible. The Bible says Jesus existed. Now it is YOUR job to show me why the Bible is wrong or should not be considered accurate. Shoot away. I'm waiting.

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If you say there are no absolutes, I ask you, are you absolutely sure about that?

Well, to talk about the Jerico and Ai Myth come on over to This thread.So far almost none of the events in the Bible have been proven.There is no evidence that the Exodus as described in the Bible ever happened.There is lots of evidence that the Flood never happened.The Bible is a map. That's all. A map. It is a guide and one of the sources provided to lead us towards the answers to the Why.But it is not a science book.It is not a history book.

The Map is not the Territory?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Josephus wrote: The consensus of most Christian and Jewish scholars is that this passage is authentic, but that early Christian copyists inserted certain phrases that Josephus did not originally write. Three elements seem to be added.1. The phrase "about this time there lived Jesus, a wise man" is not normally used by Christians when talking about Jesus, so this seems to be writted by Josephus. But the next phrase, "if indeed one ought to call him a man," implies that Jesus was more than human and was most likely added by Christians later.2. When Josephus mentions James, he says that "Jesus was called the Christ. However, here it says Jesus was the Christ. This is the second element that was probably added.3. The phrase "On the third day he appeared to them restored to life" indicates a clear belief in the resurrection of Jesus, and is most likely added as well.The rest of the passage Josephus originally wrote about Jesus would be without those three points. But still it corroborates important information about Jesus, such as his martyrdom, being a wise teacher who established a wide and lasting following, and being crucified by Pilate.It is unlikely that "Josephus may not have originally said anything about Jesus at all." He mentions him in regards to James as well, remember. To make this assertion is mere conjecture.

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If you say there are no absolutes, I ask you, are you absolutely sure about that?

jar says: I agree its primary function is not as a history book. But IT IS STILL historically accurate!Did you ignore this here? And here is the link again: Archaeology and the Old Testament What about that huge thread about the exodus video and the corral covered chariot wheels? (I admit I have not read most of the thread, so I might not know something I should here)

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If you say there are no absolutes, I ask you, are you absolutely sure about that?

Not at all. It's interesting but doesn't add much to the issue of the United Kingdom.The thread about the Exodus video is a classic example of psuedo-science. It's a group of folk whose faith is so weak that they will grab at anything, no matter how stretched, to support the Bible. It's an example of placing the conclusion first and then forcing or manufacturing evidence to support that conclusion.That is neither good science or good theology.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I don't know how many times I have to say this.The burden of proof always falls on the side that claims the positive.Base on your logic, I could easily claim that there are green goblins running around and assume it as fact until someone can prove that there are no green goblins. Heck, I can claim that the tooth fairy exists and everyone has to accept it as fact until someone could check out every corner of the universe to disprove that tooth fairies don't exist.It is noone's job to disprove what you claim. The burden of proof is on your shoulder if you want to claim that god exists, ok?

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The Laminator
For goodness's sake, please vote Democrat this November!

Lama writes: Your analogy is flawed.If you claimed there are green goblins running around, I would say, "have you seen any?" You would have to say, "Well, no." Lets apply this to Jesus. The writers claim that a resurrected Jesus is running around. You ask, "Have you seen him?" and they reply, "Yes! We saw him, we touched him, talked with him, ate with him!"You can further ask about the goblins, "Has anyone else seen them?" You would again have to answer, "No." Ask the disciples, "Have anyone besides you also seen Jesus?" and they would reply "Yes! He appeared to many other people, even 500 people at one time!"You can go even further and ask, "Is there any non-eyewitness evidence that green goblins are running around? Footprints? Pictures? Dwelling places?" Again, you have to answer, "No." Ask the disciples this question. They would say, "Yes! He was killed on the cross and sealed in a tomb for three days. On the third day, the heavy stone sealing it had been rolled away and his body was not there! Soldiers had even been guarding it. Furthermore, some of us saw angels, who told us that Jesus had risen from the dead!" One could add that his body was never found, indicating his corpse was not hidden somewhere else.Your goblin example involves proving goblins don't exist by looking for evidence until all possible places to look have been exhausted. I am trying to prove somthing DOES exist. It is not a matter of "checking every corner of the universe" to find evidence. The evidence is already in front of you!In your goblin example, if someone said he has seen goblins, you need to question them and find out whether their statement is good evidence. In the same way, the gospels state many things about Jesus. Now, you need to ask questions in order to determine if the gospels are good evidence for Jesus. I have already mentioned several ways in which they ARE good evidence, such as the conviction with which the writers stuck to their beliefs. I agree! And delivered! You asked for proof of Jesus, I gave you the Bible!

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If you say there are no absolutes, I ask you, are you absolutely sure about that?

Well based on what I know (and again I admit I have not read most of the thread) it seems that this particular section of the red sea is the only palce where a huge group of poeple could cross if the sea were dried (because of the cliffs everywhere else) and they coral are in the shape of chariot wheels. What bad science/theology about that? (Yikes, getting off topic This message has been edited by General Nazort, 08-04-2004 12:23 AM

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If you say there are no absolutes, I ask you, are you absolutely sure about that?