Please give me so-called "proof" of Jesus or God.

You want proof? Kill yourself.You want to be a witness to Jesus?Acts 1
8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."

Are you asking for evidence that he ever existed?
Or just how we know he exists?

Well I gave you one, straight from the bible.I'll give you another.
Matter of fact I'm going to give you many evidences that he exists. I don't have time to write them all down tonight, but in the coming days I will.First off, I did everything he asked me to do, and he in return did everything to me as promised, just as it is in the bible.Secondly, he told me this:Matthew 24:9
"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me.John 15:20
Remember the words I spoke to you: 'No servant is greater than his master.'[ 15:20 John 13:16] If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also.Pretty much that is what you do to all "Christian fundies" isn't it?
Persecute them?So you help fulfill prophecy, congradulations bro. You help prove that he exists.The true answer you seek comes from withinside yourself. That is why you don't need me to convince you that he is real. Unless you seek him yourself, with all your heart, you'll be hard pressed to find him.But I will share with you what has happened to me.

I see nothing there that requires me not to use my bible. #1The so called "christians" you speak of who persecuted others, and killed millions, were not acting like christians at all. They weren't christians no matter what they called themselves.So if you blame God, and those people (I said PEOPLE) for christianity being screwed up, then you are missing the whole point.So some guys blow up the twin towers in the name of whatever, and now every dude with a towel on his head is a terrorist?I know your smarter than that to blame "christianity" for everything that happened. Let me clue you in, it wasn't christianity that caused all that stuff, it was man. Man is to blame for everything wrong in this world. Not some religion. For if there was no christianity, then those idiots would have done the same thing in the name of whatever. It wasn't christianity or the teachings of Jesus that drove them to do that.It is the devil that God allowed to cause those things to happen. All because man is so screwd up. And now, you become the big loser because the devil has you just where he wants you. You fell into his trap. Thats exactly what he wants is the world to hate God.Ask yourself a question, "do I really believe that all these bad things that happen in the world are the fault of any specific religion, or was it man just being man?" Listen to your heart.Look at Russia, they banned religion, are they any better off than us?
Do they behave any more humane than the rest of the world?
Don't start giving me lectures on religion in Russia either. I know a few people straight from Russia and weren't allowed to have a religion. Other than that I know very little about the history of religion in Russia.When you lunp all Dhristians into the same category, you are the one being ignorant and prejudice. You are also the one that is now persecuting others, which makes you no better than all those "christians" in the world. I am pre-judged by you based on what I believe in. With that attitude, you hardly deserve an answer, or would you likely accept any answer that I have for you. But still, I will show you love and try to explain to you what I feel.If you expect me to prove to you anything without the bible, then you are not going to get any answers. It is by the bible that I found him, so I would need it to help prove to you his existance.It would be like you trying to prove your gay without another man being around. I can't believe your gay just because you claim it.Anyway thats not how you prove Jesus's existance. The only way to find out if he exists, is for you to find him yourself. If you do not look, you will not find him. If you keep letting the short comings of man get in the way of your search, then you will never find him. If you let the devil get in your way, you will never find him.Jesus promised us the Holy Spirit when he left. I followed his instructions on how to recieve the Holy Spirit, and it came to me. Just like magic(I still am amazed at the whole thing). Now I live with the Holy Spirit inside me and activated, and it is my guide in life. He will never let me down, as long as I never let him down. When your creator speaks to you spiritually, you will then know in your heart that he is real.(any secoond now, rhain will be in here and start another gay thread.)

I wasn't alking about what happens in government, or TV.
I am talking about what Lam does to all christians, based on their religion only.He lumps us all together into one group.
He doesn't like us just because we are Christian. Thats exactly what happened to Jesus. His belief's and values were not liked by others, so they wanted to kill him.Thats like saying all Spanish people are the same. Don't tell that one to a Spanish person.

If you refuse this, then you are missing the whole thing.
I cannot prove it for you, you have to go and prove it for yourself. Its all about your personal relationship with Jesus, not mine.
You will never get the proof you seek without accepting this statement. Just keep denying him, then he'll come to you.I don't give a crap about the scottsmaa fallacy, all those bad things that happened were obviously against Jesus' teachings, so I could never call them Christian, no matter what they called themselves.Once you know Jesus you would never do those things.It was all man's fault, not religion, not God, period. Man invented it, man carried it out, man did all those bad things. Jesus never did anything bad like that. He got killed by man for trying to be good, and save us all. Who's the big loser here? man man man. Not Jesus, not God, not the Holy Spirit.Can you get that?How more obvious could it be?Keep blaming Jesus and God for what man did. If you read the bible, and try to understand it a little more, you'll find out that Jesus pointed out how wrong man was, is and will still be.Even the disciples didn't get it to well. They kept doubting Jesus at ever new corner they turned. But after Jesus died and rose again, and filled them with the Holy Spirit, did they really commit themselves full time to God.
There's a bunch of guys who would doubt Jesus all the time, and yet when he died, and they could be free of it all, they stayed true to him.Unless you seek him with all your heart, and feel the presence of the Holy Spirit, you will never get it. Then all truths will be revealed to you. And its not a bad thing.If I could describe the whole thing with 2 words, Love and Truth. Hardly describes what all those Christians did in the name of blah blah.This is why I can sit here and say I Love you Lam. I may not agree with some things you do, but I do Love you.

Because you can't see the forest through the trees, is not my fault. Its all right there. ITs right in front of your face, yet you deny it.You are a prisoner of your own mind.

Yes, but that wasn't my point.Alcoholics are all different too, even though they all drink by choice.
Some drink more, some drink less. Some are responsbile, some aren't.You get my point?
Can you understand that not all Christians are the same?
If you do not agree with one Christian, or a whole group of Christians, should you there for hate all Christians, or not belive in God?

Thats my point exactly, now you got it.
When you start calling me a "christian fundi" and putting words in my mouth, then you are prejudice towards christians, which Lam has stated he is. He hates us.Go back in the messages to see where it all started, message 85.This message has been edited by riVeRraT, 07-07-2004 06:08 AMThis message has been edited by riVeRraT, 07-07-2004 06:10 AM

What difference would that make if you are predjudice?
You can be predjudice against lifestyle choices, or the way you are born, it's all not ok.My original point, which I wrote is, there are many different Christians, why would you hate all of them, just because they are Christian? Isn't he really mad at God then? Especially if he uses that excuse not to seek God?

Its not you, it was lam.

I would hope that you are really like that. But it seems you have deciced to hate me just because I am a Christian, and I do not agree with being gay, even though I accept the person who is gay. That would be predjudice on your part.Do you hate me?

Lol, and smelly people always smell.Judge away oh great one. you don't know who I am. I am you.

Pick a high bridge.

But to base your life on them, knowing full well that in 15 minutes there will be an update is just silly.