|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
Member (Idle past 507 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Please give me so-called "proof" of Jesus or God. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
crashfrog Member (Idle past 1497 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Many of the eye-witnesses were still alive when the manuscripts containining such claims were circulating. Who were these eye-witnesses?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Jack Member Posts: 3514 From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch Joined: Member Rating: 9.2 |
That quote from Josephus is widely regarded to be fake - http://members.cox.net/galatians/Josephus.htm which also deals with the quote from Tacitus.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
almeyda Inactive Member |
Martyrdom for a belief is not unique, but what kind of person would die for a known lie?. Historical records and reports about the disciples indicated they died cruel deaths. James was stoned, Peter was crucified upside down, Paul was beheaded, Thaddaeus was killed with arrows, Matthew and James (Zebedee) faced sword deaths and other believers were crucified. Then we have the edict were anyone found with a Bible was killed. Underneath Rome lie some 900miles of caves where over 7 million christians, executed for there beliefs were buried. Then you have Paul, a leading executor of christians who gave up wealth and power upon seeing the ressurection. Then going on to write most of the New Testament. The ressurected Christ was witnessed by more than 500 people (1 Corinthians 15:6). Many were nonbelievers who commited there lives soon after. Christians were so moved that they were willing to die for Christ.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Jack Member Posts: 3514 From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch Joined: Member Rating: 9.2 |
So, Wako?
Better documented deaths of the faithful than yours, guess you're following the wrong faith then?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
purpledawn Member (Idle past 3487 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:What was the specific belief you feel they died for? A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
almeyda Inactive Member |
God. Jesus proclaimed to be God.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Kapyong Member (Idle past 3472 days) Posts: 344 Joined: |
Greetings all,
quote: No they don't.There are NO historical records of the disciples deaths. Merely later myths and legends, often centuries later. quote:Poppycock! No such edict ever existed. quote:Nonsense - where do you GET this stuff? quote:Are you serious? Paul never saw the resurrection - he just had some sort of spiritual vision of Jesus. Paul did NOT give up wealth and power. Are you just making this all up or what? quote:False. One document claims 500 people saw Jesus - no names or details at all. We have NO idea about ANYTHING about these people. There is NO evidence "they were nonbelievers who commited there lives soon after" quote:Many Jews died for their beliefs, suicide bombers die for their beliefs, the Heaven's gate cult died for their beliefs... So what? Iasion
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
crashfrog Member (Idle past 1497 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Martyrdom for a belief is not unique, but what kind of person would die for a known lie? How does that even begin to answer my question? I asked you to substantiate a claim that there were eyewitnesses.
The ressurected Christ was witnessed by more than 500 people (1 Corinthians 15:6). Who were they? Why are you dodging the question?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
You want proof? Kill yourself.
You want to be a witness to Jesus? Acts 18 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
coffee_addict Member (Idle past 507 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: |
To everyone: Please refrain from responding any further to almeyda. I want a one on one with almeyda. Let's see if I can squeeze some real juice out of almeyda.
almeyda writes:
Would you say, then, that there was actually an alien space ship hidden behind Hale-bopp comet and that it was going to take the members of the heaven's gate cult to their paradise planet? Martyrdom for a belief is not unique, but what kind of person would die for a known lie? Would you say, then, that Jim Jones was actually the messiah and he had healing powers? Please answer the questions directly. Consider me as a 13 yr old who cannot decipher poetic ramblings very well. The Laminator
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
sfs Member (Idle past 2563 days) Posts: 464 From: Cambridge, MA USA Joined: |
The first book of the new testament was written at least 40 years after Jesus's death by someone that never met Jesus.
More like 25 years (early 30s to late 50s, which is when the earliest of Paul's letters were written).
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
coffee_addict Member (Idle past 507 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: |
Depends on which person or which book your refer to I guess. I got the 40 figure from the fundies during a debate on biblical stuff some months ago. I think it was Prof Monte that told me that, not sure though.
The Laminator
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
sfs Member (Idle past 2563 days) Posts: 464 From: Cambridge, MA USA Joined: |
Just out of curiousity and this is not specifically directed at you, why do you believe he was even a single person? Why not several people who are were then later claimed to be a single person i.e. events, quotes, etc. attributed to one person that actually came from other people? Considering all supposed evidence post dates his hypothetical life, Jesus' life could be composed of the lives and events and interpretations thereof of multiple people. One sees such historical revisionism at much shallower time depths such as quotes ascribed to Lincoln that came from others...the cult of Che Guevarra etc. Why not with a religious figure?
It might help to distinguish between a single person about whom traditions accrete, and a true composite. Lincoln is a single historical figure, to whom some legendary material has been attributed by later tradition. The same is likely true of Jesus. He is sufficiently well anchored historically that we're essentially talking about a single person, but there's a big enough gap between his life and the surviving reports (much larger than with Lincoln, of course) that it's inevitable that the traditions associated with him would change and grow.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
sfs Member (Idle past 2563 days) Posts: 464 From: Cambridge, MA USA Joined: |
Depends on which person or which book your refer to I guess. Do you mean Biblical book or the source of the claim? In any case, your statement was about the first book in the New Testament, and it was wrong. There's no significant uncertainty about the dating of the earliest of Paul's epistles (unless one of the undated books is earlier, which is possible but unlikely).
I got the 40 figure from the fundies during a debate on biblical stuff some months ago. I think it was Prof Monte that told me that, not sure though.
Are you sure this wasn't the time to the first gospel account? It would fit much better.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Hangdawg13 Member (Idle past 781 days) Posts: 1189 From: Texas Joined: |
but there's a big enough gap between his life and the surviving reports (much larger than with Lincoln, of course) that it's inevitable that the traditions associated with him would change and grow. That is probably why Matthew Mark Luke and John wrote down the gospels. Misinformation began to circulate and they wanted to set the record straight and make sure that future believers would know the truth. Just my opinion of course, but it is reasonable.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024