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Author | Topic: Brexit - Should they stay or should they go? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
No Brexit is on the table in that the Government has the power to back out of Brexit. Whether Parliament has the will to do that is another matter. But at this stage the alternatives are so awful I wouldn’t rule it out. May’s deal is looking dead. A No Deal Brexit isn’t any more popular. Going back to the drawing board and starting again isn’t much better, either.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
Nadine Dorries (Brexiteer) on May’s deal.
But unfortunately, the future of the country and of our relationship with Europe is at stake. This deal gives us no voice, no votes, no MEPs, no commissioner.
The Independent I will grant that she’s talking about the transition period but that’s still pretty much the way it has to be. If we’re out of the EU we don’t get a say. If we want to keep free trade going we have to follow some EU rules.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
The Parliamentary vote won’t be until January, probably as late as May dares make it.
However, if there’s a General Election there will be an extension of the negotiating period. Unless the EU wants to bounce the U.K. into No Deal. And I don’t think that they do.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
Transcript
It’s time for the British public, the government and especially the Brexiteers to face reality. Sir Ivan is a former U.K. representative to the EU
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
The No Confidence vote May survived was a Party issue. If she lost she would be on her way out as leader of the Tory Party.
If Corbyn has brought a No Confidence vote against the Government, winning would have brought down the government and probably lead to a General Election. A Parliamentary vote of No Confidence in the Prime Minister, though, is just theatre. It makes a point about just how unpopular May is in Parliament, but that is it.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
Corbyn’s going ahead with it. Plaid Cymru, the SNP, the Lib Dem’s and the Greens are trying to turn it into a full vote of No Confidence in the government. If they can pull that off, everything is up in the air.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
To the best of my knowledge it hasn’t been done before - and why would anyone do that when a No Confidence vote can bring down the government instead ? Forcing the governing party to change leaders also seems weird. And ripe for manipulation by malcontents in that party.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
The Tories had their No Confidence vote. May won, they can’t try again for another year. That’s what caffeine was talking about.
Jeremy Corbyn, the leader of the opposition wants Parliament to take a vote of No Confidence in the Prime Minister - but not the government. Which is basically there to rub May’s unpopularity in her face without having any other effects. So discontented Tories can vote for it, without having to worry about a General Election. It’s not going to happen, so it doesn’t matter anyway.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
Ringo you are still confusing two different votes.
There was the vote held by the Tory party. That was not a Parliamentary vote. There was the vote proposed by Jeremy Corbyn, which would have been a Parliamentary vote.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: In the Message 360 which starts with the sentence:
The No Confidence vote May survived was a Party issue.
That then states
If she lost she would be on her way out as leader of the Tory Party.
And which then goes on to talk about the vote that Corbyn was proposing and in the last paragraph:
A Parliamentary vote of No Confidence in the Prime Minister, though, is just theatre...
It seems pretty clear to me that the Parliamentary vote was the one that Corbyn was proposing as leader of the Opposition, not the Party vote that May had already survived.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: Then ask yourself why not. It seems pretty obvious to me that the vote that would have removed May as Prime Minister is not the vote I described as just theatre, to raise just one point.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
And I can’t see how my post can be read your way.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
May loses by 432 votes to 202 - the biggest Parliamentary defeat for a government in modern times, smashing past the previous worst (a mere 166 votes in 1924)
At least she did better than the single Amendment that was voted on - that went down by 600 votes to 24.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3
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The deadline was set in law when Parliament voted for Brexit
Exiting without a deal means that all arrangements with the EU are void - that covers a hell of a lot. Tariffs, entry, flights, data protection.... The Irish border is a border with the EU. Since stoping the free movement of people was one of the reasons for Brexit it would be a bit silly to say it’s OK if people happen to come through Ireland. Likewise movement of goods (what’s the point of tariffs or regulations if importers can just avoid them?) At this stage the British electorate can only lobby their MPs. If there is a General Election they can have some impact. If there is another referendum they could have more (but I think that a referendum could be easily rigged by the choice of options.). Neither seems that likely - there will be a No Confidence vote tomorrow, but May is expected to win.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
I thought we were already in the Perfect shitStorm. There is no option that won’t piss off a lot of people. Time is running out. May’s credibility is shot. The EU won’t renegotiate without major changes to the offer...
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