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Author Topic:   Catholics are making it up.
Phat
Member
Posts: 13699
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 361 of 419 (870255)
01-15-2020 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 358 by jar
01-15-2020 7:46 AM


Re: It's ALL made up, both sides of the issue, forget what God has to say about it
And the fact remains that what you posted from Romans is a simply assertion with no evidence to support it. It is just the opinion of the author of Romans and contradicted by what is actually written in Genesis.

So why isnt the scripture from Genesis not simply an opinion also? Why do you always pick on her? Do you feel it is your call?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
"You may not like it, but the dog bites both ankles."~Tangle


This message is a reply to:
 Message 358 by jar, posted 01-15-2020 7:46 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 362 by jar, posted 01-15-2020 2:59 PM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32167
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 362 of 419 (870268)
01-15-2020 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 361 by Phat
01-15-2020 12:01 PM


Re: It's ALL made up, both sides of the issue, forget what God has to say about it
Phat writes:

So why isnt the scripture from Genesis not simply an opinion also? Why do you always pick on her? Do you feel it is your call?

The scripture from Genesis is also just opinion as is everything written in scripture. I've always said just that; none of the mareial found in any of the writings in any of the Bibles of any of the Canons is anything more than the opinion or the authors, redactors, editors and compilers.

Yet the fact remains that there is no Fall to be found anywhere in the Bible and the author of Romans provides nothing but an unsupported assertion that is refuted by what is written in Genesis 2&3.

It's ALL made up Phat. All just the product of human imagination.

Edited by jar, : of not or


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 361 by Phat, posted 01-15-2020 12:01 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 363 by Phat, posted 01-15-2020 5:22 PM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 13699
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 363 of 419 (870276)
01-15-2020 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 362 by jar
01-15-2020 2:59 PM


Re: It's ALL made up, both sides of the issue, forget what God has to say about it
jar writes:

It's ALL made up Phat. All just the product of human imagination.

Quite an assertion! This particular topic is titled "Catholics are making it up.". So you mean to say that all of the scholars who have diligently (not whimsically and fancifully) studied the statements from many of the ancient Saints, Apostles, Popes, and Clergy and who have written sometimes brilliant observations on philosophies learned, improved, and passed down, some from the very utterings of an Apostle of Christ or Christ Himself...are wrong??!! And little old jar from Texas with a bit of pomp and brevity and armed with his trusty critically thinking mind is right and can dismiss the value of all of these teachers?

*Shakes head*

No. No, I don't believe you. Your alternative explanations are as bankrupt as what you claim the theological arguments contain. To begin with, you have to support the assertion that most of them are willfully ignorant. Next, you have to show indications that they are liars. Finally, you have to show me why the churches are making stuff up. Surely there are at least a minority of true believers in those churches who would blow the whistle and tell the others to stop.

Now. Granted, a hot iron has recently seared my conscience. As I have allowed myself to rant about the demise of the US Middle Class(mainly myself) and the unfairness of it all, I began to get in touch with my inner emotions and feelings. Oh yes, I was "saved" at one point. Scripture tells me I have not lost this gift, but my behavior suggests otherwise. I am finding selfish, indifferent, greedy, and ungodly feelings within my soul. Part of it is because of my recent blindness in one eye, plus overall aging. I feel that life has been unfair, and I am considering the implications of there being no rescuing God. It scares and infuriates me. I would just as well nuke the planet, because if I don't get blessed, why should anyone?

These feelings are not of God. He tells us to love our neighbor as ourselves and to consider others better than ourselves. The list goes on. One thing I do know for sure. Salvation is a gift---we cannot earn it. And if God chose to give it to those who never worked for it, this would NOT be a copout. It would be a miracle.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
"You may not like it, but the dog bites both ankles."~Tangle


This message is a reply to:
 Message 362 by jar, posted 01-15-2020 2:59 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 364 by jar, posted 01-15-2020 5:33 PM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32167
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 364 of 419 (870277)
01-15-2020 5:33 PM
Reply to: Message 363 by Phat
01-15-2020 5:22 PM


Re: It's ALL made up, both sides of the issue, forget what God has to say about it
Phat writes:

So you mean to say that all of the scholars who have diligently (not whimsically and fancifully) studied the statements from many of the ancient Saints, Apostles, Popes, and Clergy and who have written sometimes brilliant observations on philosophies learned, improved, and passed down, some from the very utterings of an Apostle of Christ or Christ Himself...are wrong??!

No Phat, I say they are they are made up. Each and every utterance or writing is the product of a human mind. And I acknowledge that the Genesis 2&3 story does not show Death coming into the world through any act of man but rather that Death was the default condition created by God.

Phat writes:

Surely there are at least a minority of true believers in those churches who would blow the whistle and tell the others to stop.

Yet the evidence shows that the followers will simply believe the most outlandish things even when the evidence is clearly visible.

Phat writes:

Salvation is a gift---we cannot earn it. And if God chose to give it to those who never worked for it, this would NOT be a copout.

Yet I have never said anyone earns salvation but rather by failure to do what Jesus says we should do the character Jesus in the Bible says we will be damned.

It's not what I say Phat, it is what the Bible says Jesus said. The passage from Romans that so many love to use as a comfort blanket actually says what is actually written. It has no evidence or Biblical support or even reasoning or argument; simply a black assertion and Genesis 2&3 contradicts what is written in Romans.

Edited by jar, : appalin spallin

Edited by jar, : more applin spallin


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 363 by Phat, posted 01-15-2020 5:22 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 365 by Phat, posted 01-16-2020 10:12 PM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 13699
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 365 of 419 (870323)
01-16-2020 10:12 PM
Reply to: Message 364 by jar
01-15-2020 5:33 PM


Re: It's ALL made up, both sides of the issue, forget what God has to say about it
jar writes:

I say they are made up. Each and every utterance or writing is the product of a human mind.

How do we know or even have evidence disproving the idea that much of religious thought is formed through a communion of human minds with a Divinity? How do we know that humanity is partially designed to be a social experiment/incubation of the human species for other tasks later on? Maybe we have to graduate kindergarten before we can participate in universal governance. My point is that we can argue that it's all solely a product of the human mind(collectively) but at the same time have a belief in a greater purpose. And we have subjective testimony on just such a possibility. Why is communion with GOD a silly fantasy? Can it not be a possibility? GOD is certainly not by definition so limited.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
"You may not like it, but the dog bites both ankles."~Tangle


This message is a reply to:
 Message 364 by jar, posted 01-15-2020 5:33 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 368 by jar, posted 01-17-2020 7:31 AM Phat has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 13699
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 366 of 419 (870324)
01-16-2020 10:16 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Tangle
09-08-2015 4:12 PM


Why should anyone believe anything they say?
Tangle, referring to the Catholic Church writes:

Why should anyone believe anything they say?

By all means question, but we cannot very well build a society using our best effort if we only trust data and physical evidence and forever doubt human motive.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
"You may not like it, but the dog bites both ankles."~Tangle


This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Tangle, posted 09-08-2015 4:12 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 367 by Tangle, posted 01-17-2020 2:51 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7343
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 367 of 419 (870326)
01-17-2020 2:51 AM
Reply to: Message 366 by Phat
01-16-2020 10:16 PM


Re: Why should anyone believe anything they say?
Phat writes:

By all means question, but we cannot very well build a society using our best effort if we only trust data and physical evidence and forever doubt human motive.

The full quote is:

quote:
But, it's an indictment of religions that their 'truths' are abandonned when they become inconvenient. It's very clear that the Catholic church simply made up all sorts of nonsense, probably as a means of control over their customers. Why should anyone believe anything they say?

My position is that religious dogma is pure human invention. Some of it's modern like the Mormon's but most of it is ancient, born in times when no-one knew the causes of anything and the church used its power to control its sheep by creating it's rituals and rules of life within it.

If you want evidence of this you only have to look at the invention of the Protestant church in England, created by Henry VIII so he could divorce and re-marry. And, of course, all the subsequent about-faces the Catholic church has made and are continuing to make. These things were once 'truth' but are now not.

'Data and physical evidence' plus the scientific method used to evaluate them is the most reliable method humankind has found for establishing 'truth'. Belief has been proven to be bollox, that's why it's disappearing and the institutions that promote it are having to back-peddle like crazy to remain even remotely relevant.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 366 by Phat, posted 01-16-2020 10:16 PM Phat has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 369 by jar, posted 01-17-2020 7:37 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32167
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 368 of 419 (870327)
01-17-2020 7:31 AM
Reply to: Message 365 by Phat
01-16-2020 10:12 PM


Re: It's ALL made up, both sides of the issue, forget what God has to say about it
Phat writes:

How do we know or even have evidence disproving the idea that much of religious thought is formed through a communion of human minds with a Divinity?

We look at the evidence; what is written; and compare that to what we see that is known to be solely the product of humans. We ask for evidence that some communion does or even could exist between a human mind and some divinity. The, based on the evidence we reach a conclusion.

You and I have gone over the evidence many times but you simply deny the evidence exists. Look at what was actually written in the Bible stories about Saul's conversion or about the Great Commission; look at the varying and often incompatible and mutually exclusive description of God in the stories.

Phat writes:

Why is communion with GOD a silly fantasy? Can it not be a possibility? GOD is certainly not by definition so limited.

Humans are so limited. How can you tell you are communing with XYZ? Again, look at the evidence. Look at the history of supposed human interaction with God(s) or god(s) but consider all of the evidence and not just those pieces parts you happen to like. Jim Jones was in communion with God. So was Muhammad. So was Hitler and Hirohito was not just in communion but actually was Divine.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 365 by Phat, posted 01-16-2020 10:12 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 370 by Phat, posted 01-17-2020 1:43 PM jar has responded
 Message 375 by Phat, posted 01-18-2020 10:27 AM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32167
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 369 of 419 (870329)
01-17-2020 7:37 AM
Reply to: Message 367 by Tangle
01-17-2020 2:51 AM


Re: Why should anyone believe anything they say?
Tangle writes:

If you want evidence of this you only have to look at the invention of the Protestant church in England, created by Henry VIII so he could divorce and re-marry.

Actually the split was mainly caused by the conflict of two calendars; the biological clock driving the issue of an heir and the communication/political clock determined by transportation of the period. There was little doubt that Henry would be able to get the annulment but not quickly enough to assure that the bun already in the oven would not be born a bastard.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 367 by Tangle, posted 01-17-2020 2:51 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 13699
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 370 of 419 (870347)
01-17-2020 1:43 PM
Reply to: Message 368 by jar
01-17-2020 7:31 AM


Re: It's ALL made up, both sides of the issue, forget what God has to say about it
jar writes:

Jim Jones was in communion with God. So was Muhammad. So was Hitler and Hirohito was not just in communion but actually was Divine.

All this shows me is suggested validation of a spiritual battle. There is One Holy Spirit(GOD, Creator Of All Seen & Unseen) and then One human link--Jesus Christ. You can trot out all of the other cultural gods and goddesses that you like. I maintain that they are counterfeits, just as the "spirit" in Jim Jones was counterfeit.

Of course, I can't prove it objectively, but I might add that the same "counterfeit" spirits affect you and I and everyone else at times, though not to the degree as Hirohito or Hitler. My conclusion is that communion with Jesus is possible though certainly not an easy road. The very things I rant about and fight against and want to hold on to would need to be let go of. hence, when ringo accuses me of not following the message, he has a point.

The evidence shows me that it is not all made up.

You and I have gone over the evidence many times but you simply deny the evidence exists. Look at what was actually written in the Bible stories about Saul's conversion or about the Great Commission; look at the varying and often incompatible and mutually exclusive description of God in the stories.
And the reason that I reject your supposed evidence is that it concludes that GOD, if GOD exists, is not found in the Bible and is in fact a product of human imagination. Not acceptable. And I still don't see how you believe anything with teeth. All you believe in is logic, reason, and evidence.

Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
"You may not like it, but the dog bites both ankles."~Tangle


This message is a reply to:
 Message 368 by jar, posted 01-17-2020 7:31 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 371 by jar, posted 01-17-2020 2:48 PM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32167
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 371 of 419 (870351)
01-17-2020 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 370 by Phat
01-17-2020 1:43 PM


Re: It's ALL made up, both sides of the issue, forget what God has to say about it
Phat writes:

All this shows me is suggested validation of a spiritual battle. There is One Holy Spirit(GOD, Creator Of All Seen & Unseen) and then One human link--Jesus Christ. You can trot out all of the other cultural gods and goddesses that you like. I maintain that they are counterfeits, just as the "spirit" in Jim Jones was counterfeit.

Jim Jones knew he was communion with the same God with which you claim to commune and based on the same evidence.

Phat writes:

The evidence shows me that it is not all made up.

What evidence Phat?

Phat writes:

And the reason that I reject your supposed evidence is that it concludes that GOD, if GOD exists, is not found in the Bible and is in fact a product of human imagination. Not acceptable. And I still don't see how you believe anything with teeth. All you believe in is logic, reason, and evidence.

LOL

Not acceptable? That is not a valid argument Phat. What does the evidence show?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 370 by Phat, posted 01-17-2020 1:43 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 372 by Phat, posted 01-17-2020 4:13 PM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 13699
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 372 of 419 (870355)
01-17-2020 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 371 by jar
01-17-2020 2:48 PM


Re: It's ALL made up, both sides of the issue, forget what God has to say about it
If we were to accept your "evidence" like you did, we would become believers like you are. Humanist do-gooders who know nothing about God for sure, believe in themselves rather than in Christ's communion and power, and prone to throwing religion away. Maybe it works for you and you can be at peace with yourself, but as I said before, you believe in logic, reason, and evidence and not in a living Christ. You will again ask me what that even means, which proves you don't understand or accept it. I could ask 500 random people in most churches and they would know what I was talking about.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
"You may not like it, but the dog bites both ankles."~Tangle


This message is a reply to:
 Message 371 by jar, posted 01-17-2020 2:48 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 373 by jar, posted 01-17-2020 5:48 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32167
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 373 of 419 (870356)
01-17-2020 5:48 PM
Reply to: Message 372 by Phat
01-17-2020 4:13 PM


Re: It's ALL made up, both sides of the issue, forget what God has to say about it
Phat writes:

You will again ask me what that even means, which proves you don't understand or accept it. I could ask 500 random people in most churches and they would know what I was talking about.

I don't doubt that for a second; many people have never learned how to think and it's easy to just accept utter nonsense if it makes you feel good.

But even if they know what you were talking about would they be able to explain what it means? Should people be satisfied with just knowing what you are talking about without any understanding of what it even means?

Phat writes:

If we were to accept your "evidence" like you did, we would become believers like you are.

The question is whether or not the evidence actually exists? If the evidence actually exists then it really is what exists. All through recorded history humans have been in communion with deities, and in some cases deities far more real than the deity you market; deities that are actually alive and observable and testable and independently verifiable.

Hirohito actually did have a house where he lived and walked and talked and ate. Seventy eight million people knew that Hirohito was divine. You could ask seventy-eight million people and they would know he was divine.

I think that is more than 500.

Do you see how silly such claims really are? Could any of those nodding heads explain what it means?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 372 by Phat, posted 01-17-2020 4:13 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17924
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 374 of 419 (870357)
01-17-2020 7:04 PM
Reply to: Message 353 by Faith
01-15-2020 12:51 AM


Re: It's ALL made up, both sides of the issue, forget what God has to say about it
Faith writes:

I gave evidence for my side, where's yours?


The evidence shows that there has been no "deterioration" in genomes, etc. sice the Flood (which didn't happen, according to the evidence).

Faith writes:

Scripturally, after the Fall thorns and thistles came up and growing food became difficult, so much more so one would expect would there be such problems after the Flood wiped out the whole early environment.


But it is not scriptural in that scripture says no such thing. It may or may not be a reasonable inference but it is not scriptural.

Faith writes:

For it to be "unscriptural" you'd have to show that scripture says the environment changed for the better.


No, I just have to point out that scripture doesn't say it - you're making it up.

Faith writes:

No, it's an inference based on Biblical references plus common sense. Such thinking is not "made up."


It certainly is made up. That's what made up means. Unfortunately you have an unrealistically low opinion of fiction; you dismiss anything made up as bad, so you can't admit that any of your beliefs are made up.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 353 by Faith, posted 01-15-2020 12:51 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 13699
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 375 of 419 (870373)
01-18-2020 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 368 by jar
01-17-2020 7:31 AM


Re: It's ALL made up, both sides of the issue, forget what God has to say about it
jar writes:

We ask for evidence that some communion does or even could exist between a human mind and some divinity. Then, based on the evidence we reach a conclusion.

I feel as if such communion can exist. What would stop it?

It could exist, even if we made up the interaction, God could still be listening.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
"You may not like it, but the dog bites both ankles."~Tangle


This message is a reply to:
 Message 368 by jar, posted 01-17-2020 7:31 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 376 by jar, posted 01-18-2020 10:54 AM Phat has responded

  
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