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Author Topic:   Being offended.
Phat
Member
Posts: 18655
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 406 of 444 (905903)
02-05-2023 10:12 AM
Reply to: Message 405 by xongsmith
02-05-2023 10:03 AM


Re: Faith = Religious Stupidity
Are True Nerds the same counterpart to True Christians? FYI I used to watch all of the Star Treks! Im less familiar with Star Wars, though their weird spiritual interpretations of the Force or forces guiding the universe are predictable. And to be honest, without Star Trek, it is doubtful todays nerds would have had the inspiration to make JWST, Hubble, The Mars Global Surveyor, and a plethora of technological benefits that science has given us. My argument centers on human nature.

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 405 by xongsmith, posted 02-05-2023 10:03 AM xongsmith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 410 by nwr, posted 02-05-2023 10:29 AM Phat has replied
 Message 414 by Theodoric, posted 02-05-2023 10:58 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8655
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 6.7


(1)
Message 407 of 444 (905905)
02-05-2023 10:18 AM
Reply to: Message 405 by xongsmith
02-05-2023 10:03 AM


Re: Faith = Religious Stupidity
Phat writes:
...Try Star Wars. Try Star Trek. Many Nerds worship that stuff!...
xongsmith writes:
No True Nerd does!
Well ... define worship.
You know us true nerds do worship the genre. Firefly is playing. Got to worship that show. But not in the religious zealous way Phat wants to imaging but more like the worship I used to give my girls ... lower regions ... reveling in the thoughts of the gifts I was about to receive. That kinda delicious happy worship.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 405 by xongsmith, posted 02-05-2023 10:03 AM xongsmith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 409 by Phat, posted 02-05-2023 10:27 AM AZPaul3 has not replied
 Message 415 by Theodoric, posted 02-05-2023 11:02 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6484
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


(4)
Message 408 of 444 (905908)
02-05-2023 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 403 by Phat
02-05-2023 9:43 AM


Re: Faith = Religious Stupidity
Try Star Wars.
That's just fiction.
Try Star Trek.
Also just fiction.
Many Nerds worship that stuff!
I was never into either Star Wars or Star Trek. They are okay entertainment, but not very realistic.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 403 by Phat, posted 02-05-2023 9:43 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18655
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 409 of 444 (905909)
02-05-2023 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 407 by AZPaul3
02-05-2023 10:18 AM


Re: Faith = Religious Stupidity
Your sarcasm reveals a lot about your ideas of worship.

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 407 by AZPaul3, posted 02-05-2023 10:18 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6484
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


(4)
Message 410 of 444 (905910)
02-05-2023 10:29 AM
Reply to: Message 406 by Phat
02-05-2023 10:12 AM


Re: Faith = Religious Stupidity
FYI I used to watch all of the Star Treks!
I watched only a very few. They quickly became tiresome.
And to be honest, without Star Trek, it is doubtful todays nerds would have had the inspiration to make JWST, Hubble, The Mars Global Surveyor, and a plethora of technological benefits that science has given us.
Then you do not understand what motivates scientists.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 406 by Phat, posted 02-05-2023 10:12 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 411 by Phat, posted 02-05-2023 10:36 AM nwr has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18655
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 411 of 444 (905912)
02-05-2023 10:36 AM
Reply to: Message 410 by nwr
02-05-2023 10:29 AM


Re: Faith = Religious Stupidity
nwr writes:
Then you do not understand what motivates scientists.
Perhaps I don't. Can someone enlighten me? We already know what motivates believers...so in all fairness lets discuss the other side.

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 410 by nwr, posted 02-05-2023 10:29 AM nwr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 412 by nwr, posted 02-05-2023 10:40 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 416 by AZPaul3, posted 02-05-2023 11:06 AM Phat has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6484
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


(2)
Message 412 of 444 (905914)
02-05-2023 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 411 by Phat
02-05-2023 10:36 AM


Re: Faith = Religious Stupidity
Scientists are mostly motivated by an intense curiosity.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 411 by Phat, posted 02-05-2023 10:36 AM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 429 by riVeRraT, posted 02-06-2023 11:10 AM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9489
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 6.3


(2)
Message 413 of 444 (905916)
02-05-2023 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 403 by Phat
02-05-2023 9:43 AM


Re: Faith = Religious Stupidity
Many Nerds worship that stuff!
No one worships Star Wars in the sense of worshipping a god.
Again you dabble in fallacies. Look up equivocation. You RWNJ"s and fundies use it all the time.
If you can't find it let me know. I will draw you a map.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 403 by Phat, posted 02-05-2023 9:43 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9489
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 6.3


Message 414 of 444 (905917)
02-05-2023 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 406 by Phat
02-05-2023 10:12 AM


Re: Faith = Religious Stupidity
It is fucking a story you idiot.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 406 by Phat, posted 02-05-2023 10:12 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9489
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 6.3


(1)
Message 415 of 444 (905918)
02-05-2023 11:02 AM
Reply to: Message 407 by AZPaul3
02-05-2023 10:18 AM


Re: Faith = Religious Stupidity
I think FireFly was the best show of the genre. Hated they just kind of wrapped it up with Serenity, but they did a good job with the movie. I also really enjoyed Farscape and Babylon 5.
Was never a big Star Trek fan.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 407 by AZPaul3, posted 02-05-2023 10:18 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8655
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 6.7


(3)
Message 416 of 444 (905919)
02-05-2023 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 411 by Phat
02-05-2023 10:36 AM


Re: Faith = Religious Stupidity
Having a strong curiosity, most scientists are motivated by acknowledgement; seen as right by their peers. Ego and reputation are major concerns. And since in science you receive the highest accolades for being right the scientist's biggest and best motivation is to be right.
Priests, contrary, are concerned with being wrong. The wrong god, the wrong sex, the wrong way to have sex, etc.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 411 by Phat, posted 02-05-2023 10:36 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 417 by Phat, posted 02-05-2023 12:14 PM AZPaul3 has not replied
 Message 418 by Tanypteryx, posted 02-05-2023 12:52 PM AZPaul3 has not replied
 Message 430 by riVeRraT, posted 02-06-2023 11:15 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18655
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 417 of 444 (905924)
02-05-2023 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 416 by AZPaul3
02-05-2023 11:06 AM


Re: Faith = Religious Stupidity
You don't even think WRONG exists. Satan sure fooled you! And I can imagine why you are so angry with those Priests. They tried to molest you and yet wouldn't let you molest women!

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 416 by AZPaul3, posted 02-05-2023 11:06 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 422 by ringo, posted 02-05-2023 1:56 PM Phat has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4597
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 9.1


(3)
Message 418 of 444 (905925)
02-05-2023 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 416 by AZPaul3
02-05-2023 11:06 AM


Re: Faith = Religious Stupidity
Having a strong curiosity, most scientists are motivated by acknowledgement; seen as right by their peers. Ego and reputation are major concerns. And since in science you receive the highest accolades for being right the scientist's biggest and best motivation is to be right.
Yep, curiosity is the prime ingredient for a scientist, but there is this emotional response that I think of as the "joy of discovery" and communicating those discoveries and getting credit for them (human ego). All the good scientists I know don't mind being incorrect and would be horrified at being shown to be a fraud, the ultimate in self betrayal.
I am fortunate to have 4 best friends who also are interesting in studying the same sciences I do. We test our hypotheses about everything with each other first to see if the others can shoot them down. Good scientists try to find every flaw in their arguments to avoid public and personal humiliations.
Whenever I hear the term "Cold Fusion" I think of Martin Fleischmann and Stanley Pons, who made an error in science communication that forever stained their reputations as scientists.
Wikipedia:
Cold fusion is a hypothesized type of nuclear reaction that would occur at, or near, room temperature. It would contrast starkly with the "hot" fusion that is known to take place naturally within stars and artificially in hydrogen bombs and prototype fusion reactors under immense pressure and at temperatures of millions of degrees, and be distinguished from muon-catalyzed fusion. There is currently no accepted theoretical model that would allow cold fusion to occur.
In 1989, two electrochemists, Martin Fleischmann and Stanley Pons, reported that their apparatus had produced anomalous heat ("excess heat") of a magnitude they asserted would defy explanation except in terms of nuclear processes.[1] They further reported measuring small amounts of nuclear reaction byproducts, including neutrons and tritium.[2] The small tabletop experiment involved electrolysis of heavy water on the surface of a palladium (Pd) electrode.[3] The reported results received wide media attention[3] and raised hopes of a cheap and abundant source of energy.[4]
Many scientists tried to replicate the experiment with the few details available. Hopes faded with the large number of negative replications, the withdrawal of many reported positive replications, the discovery of flaws and sources of experimental error in the original experiment, and finally the discovery that Fleischmann and Pons had not actually detected nuclear reaction byproducts.[5] By late 1989, most scientists considered cold fusion claims dead,[6][7] and cold fusion subsequently gained a reputation as pathological science.[8][9] In 1989 the United States Department of Energy (DOE) concluded that the reported results of excess heat did not present convincing evidence of a useful source of energy and decided against allocating funding specifically for cold fusion. A second DOE review in 2004, which looked at new research, reached similar conclusions and did not result in DOE funding of cold fusion.[10] Presently, since articles about cold fusion are rarely published in peer-reviewed mainstream scientific journals, they do not attract the level of scrutiny expected for mainstream scientific publications.[11]
Nevertheless, some interest in cold fusion has continued through the decades—for example, a Google-funded failed replication attempt was published in a 2019 issue of Nature.[12][13] A small community of researchers continues to investigate it,[6][14][15] often under the alternative designations low-energy nuclear reactions (LENR) or condensed matter nuclear science (CMNS).
Cold fusion

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 416 by AZPaul3, posted 02-05-2023 11:06 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 672 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 419 of 444 (905928)
02-05-2023 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 396 by riVeRraT
02-04-2023 10:12 PM


riVeRraT writes:
See, you don't understand science.
We'll just take your word for that, shall we?
riVeRraT writes:
Zero probability would prove God doesn't exist.
No.
Zero probability just means there is no evidence. If evidence is ever found, the probability would go up.
riVeRraT writes:
Nothing in science is ever proven.
You contradict yourself. You just said that zero probability would prove.
riVeRrat writes:
There is plenty of evidence God exist, it's just subjective.
No such thing as "subjective evidence". It's right there in the word: evident. If it isn't evident to everybody, it isn't evidence.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 396 by riVeRraT, posted 02-04-2023 10:12 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 432 by riVeRraT, posted 02-06-2023 11:34 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 672 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 420 of 444 (905929)
02-05-2023 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 399 by riVeRraT
02-04-2023 10:53 PM


riVeRraT writes:
Definition of "near certain confidence" = high level of trust = high level of faith = faith.
If you're going to use definitions, at least get them right. Confidence is not the same as either trust or faith.
riVeRraT writes:
Jesus said if you have enough faith, you can move a mountain.
Dynamite can actually move mountains.
riVeRraT writes:
I have evidence, it's just subjective.
No such thing as subjective evidence.
riVeRraT writes:
Just like my love for my children is subjective.
No. Your love for your children would be easily demonstrable. If they're well-fed and clothed, if they're sheltered and educated, that's evidence that you love them. If they cringe when you come near them, that would be evidence that you don't.
By your fruits we shall know you. Fruit is evidence.
riVeRrat writes:
I've already proven in this forum that I have a firm grasp of science and how it works.
Well, in this thread alone you've demonstrated that you don't know the difference between subjective and objective - or the difference between confidence and faith.
riVeRraT writes:
This is only some of what I know and do.
Most of us here have been around the block a couple of times. All of us could write a long list of all the things we can do. I make a mean broccolli soup myself.
Some of us are capable of saying something stupid once in a while too.
riVeRraT writes:
You have no position to try and make assumptions about me, you don't know anything about me and are a wrong for even trying.
We know what you tell us.
riVeRraT writes:
You can't even stay on topic, because you have an evil heart.
The "o" in my name stands for "off-topic". It's one of my favorite places, that and thin ice.
And when I'm off topic, I'm often chasing Phat's evil heart.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 399 by riVeRraT, posted 02-04-2023 10:53 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 435 by riVeRraT, posted 02-06-2023 11:45 AM ringo has replied

  
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