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Author Topic:   When Will The End-Times Be And How Will We Know?
ringo
Member
Posts: 18990
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 99 of 462 (875878)
05-08-2020 4:27 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by Phat
05-08-2020 2:33 PM


Re: 16 Years Later. Reflections On A Thought Process
Phat writes:

A more troubling comment that I found mentioned by Ratzinger is the fear of a globalist humanist "one world religion".


I don't think he's afraid of "one world religion" as much as he's afraid that it won't be his.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Phat, posted 05-08-2020 2:33 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by Phat, posted 05-11-2020 2:56 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18990
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 106 of 462 (876001)
05-11-2020 12:59 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by Phat
05-11-2020 8:07 AM


Re: Phat's Blueprint In Defense Of A Last Days Scenario
Phat writes:

I will say, in my defense, that I am willing to examine other belief systems than my own.


No you're not. You refuse resolutely to discuss the idea that your apologists are liars.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Phat, posted 05-11-2020 8:07 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by Phat, posted 05-11-2020 1:13 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18990
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 115 of 462 (876117)
05-12-2020 7:30 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by Phat
05-11-2020 1:13 PM


Re: Phat's Blueprint In Defense Of A Last Days Scenario
Phat writes:

First off, why do you lump all apologists in the same liar camp?


You have not been able to demonstrate any that are not in that camp. Please do so.

Phat writes:

That is unless you are attempting to push the argument that we *know* the evidence yet choose to ignore it...


We know you ignore the evidence. You have said many times that you will ignore any evidence that goes against your cherished beliefs.

Phat writes:

... in which case I can say the same thing about you.


No you can't. I have said many times that I will accept any evidence that backs up your beliefs.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Phat, posted 05-11-2020 1:13 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18990
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 116 of 462 (876118)
05-12-2020 7:32 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by Phat
05-11-2020 2:56 PM


Re: 16 Years Later. Reflections On A Thought Process
Phat writes:

A one-world religion would be a watered-down counterfeit to the truth.


All religion is a watered-down version of the truth - if there is any truth in them at all.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Phat, posted 05-11-2020 2:56 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by Phat, posted 05-13-2020 11:45 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18990
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 125 of 462 (876204)
05-14-2020 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 118 by Phat
05-13-2020 11:45 AM


Re: 16 Years Later. Reflections On A Thought Process
Phat writes:

You would claim that the truth is found in evidence. I would challenge that and say that the truth is only found in humans and their inner motives and desires.


What a load of rubbish.

Phat writes:

Looking up old texts and claiming to know how the early believers think or how they arrived at their conclusions is a plot of the enemy, seeking to discredit the truth.


The only enemy is yourself. The only way to defeat that enemy is by facing reality.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by Phat, posted 05-13-2020 11:45 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by Phat, posted 05-14-2020 5:12 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18990
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 130 of 462 (876247)
05-15-2020 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 126 by Phat
05-14-2020 5:12 PM


Re: 16 Years Later. Reflections On A Thought Process
Phat writes:

You can't flip flop on me and use the Bible against me while not allowing me to use it to support my apologetic precepts.


That's the point. You DON'T use the Bible to support apologetic precepts. You don't do ANYTHING to support apologetic precepts. You use apologetic precepts to deny the Bible.

Phat writes:

You don't even believe that the characters exist outside of the book.


For the umpteenth time, I don't have to believe Frodo existed to know what the book says about Frodo.

Phat writes:

... so you can't say anything about me not doing what Jesus says to do either.


I haven't said any such thing. I've said that you flat-out DENY what He said. You SCOFF at what He said.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by Phat, posted 05-14-2020 5:12 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18990
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 155 of 462 (876495)
05-21-2020 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 151 by Phat
05-20-2020 12:13 PM


Re: no vagueness
Phat writes:

Why is it that throughout history (and I don't have stats on this but stand by it) the Bible and Jesus Christ have been challenged and attacked more than any other man or any other religious book....


You don't have stats on it because it's bullshit.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by Phat, posted 05-20-2020 12:13 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 157 by Phat, posted 05-21-2020 12:21 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18990
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 158 of 462 (876506)
05-21-2020 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 157 by Phat
05-21-2020 12:21 PM


Re: no vagueness
Phat writes:

And you have no stats to back up your position either.


I haven't stated any position.

Phat writes:

Saying that something is bullshit is a positive truth claim.


No it isn't. It's exactly the opposite. It's a lack-of-truth claim.

Lack of truth is the default. Nothing is true until shown to be true.

Phat writes:

You have simply decided that your "belief" is objective evidence and that the opposing positions have none.


Not at all. I'm simply pointing out that YOUR position has no substance.

Phat writes:

You basically teach that the characters in the book are limited to the book....


That has NOTHING to do with what we're talking about here. We're talking about your claim that Christians are persecuted more than anybody else.

Phat writes:

The Word was the word long before the Torah or the KJV were even written....


More bullshit.

Phat writes:

Can you prove to me that what I just said is BS?


See above. I don't need to prove that there's no Loch Ness Monster. You need to prove that there is one.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by Phat, posted 05-21-2020 12:21 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18990
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 184 of 462 (876675)
05-25-2020 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 178 by Phat
05-25-2020 8:20 AM


Re: JarThink
Phat writes:

... the book itself contains the eternal truth which is beyond time. This truth is Jesus Christ.


That's just a bumper sticker. What does it actually MEAN for somebody to "be" the truth?

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 178 by Phat, posted 05-25-2020 8:20 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 186 by Phat, posted 05-25-2020 1:43 PM ringo has responded
 Message 196 by Phat, posted 05-26-2020 8:48 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18990
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 188 of 462 (876683)
05-25-2020 4:08 PM
Reply to: Message 186 by Phat
05-25-2020 1:43 PM


Re: JarThink
Phat writes:

What jumped out at me right away was the idea of walking the walk rather than simply defining the talk.


A lot of people do that. It has nothing to do with "being" the truth.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by Phat, posted 05-25-2020 1:43 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18990
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 198 of 462 (876720)
05-26-2020 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 196 by Phat
05-26-2020 8:48 AM


Re: Truth Honesty & Creativity
Phat writes:

Why do people lie and deceive? What is the purpose for lies?


There are many purposes for lies, some good, some bad, but that has nothing to do with people "being" the truth.

Phat writes:

To me, somebody who is the truth has no lies or deceit in them.


That doesn't make much sense. Why don't you just SAY he's honest?

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by Phat, posted 05-26-2020 8:48 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18990
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 211 of 462 (876797)
05-28-2020 12:38 PM
Reply to: Message 206 by Phat
05-28-2020 10:18 AM


Re: Truth Honesty & Creativity
Phat writes:

Intellectuals may scoff at the whole "casting out devils" part of the agenda, but I've seen evidence of it personally and won't question it to the point of doubt. That is a strategy of the enemy and not mine.


The only enemy is yourself. You're trying to convince yourself that you're infallible.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by Phat, posted 05-28-2020 10:18 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 213 by Phat, posted 05-29-2020 7:07 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18990
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 219 of 462 (876910)
05-30-2020 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 213 by Phat
05-29-2020 7:07 PM


Re: Truth Honesty & Creativity
Phat writes:

Just because I take a stand on belief to the exclusion of doubt does not portray infallibility.


Of course it does. Why else would you refuse to question your conclusions except that you think you're infallible?

Phat writes:

I might claim that you see science logic as tentatively infallible...


That argument does not work at all, for the reason I have given: Science does NOT refuse to question itself. Science is ALL ABOUT questioning itself.

Phat writes:

... even though it has no ability to measure the supernatural.


Science has all kinds of ability to measure anything you can think of. If you come up with some method of measuring the supernatural, science will be glad to give it a try. But you wouldn't accept science's results anyway, would you? You'd stick with your beliefs because you think you're infallible.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by Phat, posted 05-29-2020 7:07 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by Phat, posted 06-01-2020 12:17 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18990
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 220 of 462 (876911)
05-30-2020 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 214 by Phat
05-29-2020 7:09 PM


Re: Truth Honesty & Creativity
Matt: Why is it that you do not believe in God?
Dan: Because there is no evidence that he exists.

Blah blah blah blah....


Did you get that garbage from a Jack Chick tract?

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by Phat, posted 05-29-2020 7:09 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 222 by Phat, posted 06-01-2020 12:16 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18990
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 225 of 462 (877009)
06-01-2020 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 223 by Phat
06-01-2020 12:17 PM


Re: Truth Honesty & Creativity
Phat writes:

ringo writes:

Why else would you refuse to question your conclusions except that you think you're infallible?


Maybe because I believe that He is infallible.

No, that doesn't work. Even IF your God was infallible, you would also have to believe that you could infallibly understand Him.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by Phat, posted 06-01-2020 12:17 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 227 by Phat, posted 06-01-2020 2:04 PM ringo has responded

  
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