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Member (Idle past 4539 days) Posts: 428 From: Portland, OR USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Evidence for the Biblical Record | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
JonF Member (Idle past 196 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
If you deny that the character for ship consits of the numeral 8, a vessel and mouths/people, then please address the evidence for that as your reply has nothing to do with the topic as it stands.
I haven't seen any credible evidence for it yet. You haven't offered any evidence at all. I can't address what doesn't exist.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 313 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
I've just been looking at a list of Chinese radicals. The element of the character that you say means "mouth" actually means "erect, proud, upright", and the element that you say means "eight" actually means "small table".
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Wounded King Member Posts: 4149 From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA Joined: |
I think you are being a bit harsh here Dr. A. The characters for mouth and erect are a rectangle and a square respectively, and which one is in the compound pictogram is pretty impossible to call just looking at them. As for the 'small table', another site showing the Kanji character for ship clearly show that the top element is not the one for table. In fact if you look at the stroke order diagram on that page, and then the one for the 'mouth' radical and the 'erect' radical it is pretty clear that it is indeed the one for 'mouth' which is composed from 3 separate strokes.
I think that the idea this has something to do with Noah's ark is nonsense, but I don't think Peg has what the actual characters themselves are mixed up. TTFN, WK
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 313 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Well, "small table" is what they've written here:
However, I'll agree that they might have intended to write "eight". According to talkorigins, by the way, it actually means "divide". As to the supposed "mouth" element, the "erect" element also is formed from three strokes, as you can see from the webpage I linked to. The only difference seems to be that "erect" is squarer and "mouth" is more oblong.
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Wounded King Member Posts: 4149 From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA Joined: |
As to the supposed "mouth" element, the "erect" element also is formed from three strokes, as you can see from the webpage I linked to. The little animated gifs confused me by only showing 2 strokes for the 'erect' radical. I may have been misled about the upper one since the site I linked to was Kanji rather than actual traditional chinese. However, searching for 'ship' on the mandarin tools site brings up this stroke order animation which clearly supports your interpretation of the upper sub pictogram. TTFN, WK
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Peg Member (Idle past 4958 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
Dr Adequate writes: But their error is deeper even than that, because it is simply nonsense to try to read a single Chinese character as though it was a sentence. LOL i dont think i really said that. The chinese characters are made up of a single pictograph or a combination of a few which creates a new word. the idea that the chinese character for ship is strangely similar to the noahs ark story seems too much for some of you to handle.
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Rahvin Member Posts: 4046 Joined: Member Rating: 7.4 |
the idea that the chinese character for ship is strangely similar to the noahs ark story seems too much for some of you to handle. Two words: Confirmation Bias.
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Peg Member (Idle past 4958 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
DrAdequate writes: I've just been looking at a list of Chinese radicals. The element of the character that you say means "mouth" actually means "erect, proud, upright", and the element that you say means "eight" actually means "small table". No webpage found at provided URL: http://chineseculture.about.com/library/extra/character/bls_numbers.htm 8 on this list looks pretty much the same as the 8 i posted earlier. Edited by Peg, : No reason given.
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ZenMonkey Member (Idle past 4539 days) Posts: 428 From: Portland, OR USA Joined: |
Peg writes: the idea that the chinese character for ship is strangely similar to the noahs ark story seems too much for some of you to handle. No, the idea that the Chinese character for ship has anything to do with your mythology is so utterly and completely wrong that it makes my head spin like a monkey in a turbo-charged bumper car. First off, your source at creation.com is void of any kind of academic merit whatever. Or more simply, they're full of shit. The authors start making up made-up stuff right in the first sentence.
quote: Well, no. 45 seconds of research reveals that Nu Wa is a female deity who made people out of globs yellow clay and (this is as close as it gets) saved the world from storms by patching up the heavens with rocks. Here's her picture. Look like Noah to you?
It just goes on from there. Your sources lack any credentials - academic or otherwise - that would give them any credibility as anthropologists, folklorists, linguists, or even fans of John Woo movies. I repeat, they're just making up made-up things. All of which is beside the point, anyway. As I pointed out in Message 208, every piece of archaeological, genetic, anthropological and linguistic evidence contradicts the Bible myth of the Tower of Babel. If you're going to try to support your unsupportable position, you should at least address the substance of the evidence, rather than dragging in irrelevant stuff that wouldn't matter even if it weren't fiction. I have no time for lies and fantasy, and neither should you. Enjoy or die. -John Lydon
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slevesque Member (Idle past 4669 days) Posts: 1456 Joined: |
Not to be picky but, is 'hero' strictly masculine in english ? Because you put an emphasise that Nuwa was a women, when they don't really precise the gender in the creation paper.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And also, did you get access to the references they give in order to do such a harsh critic ? Because all I see in the wiki article is a very summary version of a myth that is probably much, much longer than that. Furthermore, there seems to be no contradiction (A and non-A) between the two, as the paper accentuates the impact of the flood on humanity (repopulation), while the wiki article focuses on the impact of the flood on the earth (tilted sky etc.). This doesn't make a contradiction -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lastly, in the very wiki article you linked, I found this reference:
quote: This seems to indicate that there is a variation of the myth, and as a matter of fact the creo paper mentions the splitting in nine regions. So it is possible they are talking about this variation of the myth. All this to say that I find your 45sec research to be of the very lousy kind, particularly not worthy of permitting you such harsh remarks and accusations. Edited by slevesque, : No reason given.
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Huntard Member (Idle past 2324 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
slevesque writes:
I think he emphasized "woman" becuase Noah is a male. So Nu Wa being female is rather a big difference from that story to the ark tale.
Not to be picky but, is 'hero' strictly masculine in english ? Because you put an emphasise that Nuwa was a women, when they don't really precise the gender in the creation paper.
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slevesque Member (Idle past 4669 days) Posts: 1456 Joined: |
Okok, I was thinking maybe 'hero' was strictly pluriel in english.
Anyways there are plenty of flood myth's where the protagonist is a male, but with other differences from the biblical account. You'd expect this to happen with a couple thousands years of divergence.
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Huntard Member (Idle past 2324 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
slevesque writes:
It's also what you would expect if the stories haven't got the slightest thimg to do with one another.
Anyways there are plenty of flood myth's where the protagonist is a male, but with other differences from the biblical account. You'd expect this to happen with a couple thousands years of divergence.
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Peg Member (Idle past 4958 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
i have been trying to find more chinese characters but i dont have the right software to download them
from your link i found another 'mouth'
dust + (breath of) life + (from God's) mouth + motion = Creation Interestingly, this is the character for 'creation'. Its a very similar to the genesis account of Adams creation where he was made of dust and God blew into him the breath of life Edited by Peg, : No reason given.
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JonF Member (Idle past 196 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
You are assuming that Chinese characters are pictographic or ideographic. You have not addressed the points raised in Message 214.
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