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Author | Topic: Is there a legitimate argument for design? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Ed67 writes:
All I'm saying is that the "code" that's "embedded" in DNA is its structure - and that every other molecule has its own structure too, so every molecule has a "code" that's "embedded" in it exactly the same way.
You are desperate to squash the idea of a code embedded in the DNA/RNA molecule. Ed67 writes:
I'm assuming that you got the quotes accurately from Crick and/or Watson. I don't know where you got your misunderstanding of those quotes. They don't mean what you think they mean. Where do you think I got those quotes from? Since you don't understand chemistry, you can't expect to understand quotes about chemistry.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Ed67 writes:
"Group think" is actually related to objectivity. If the group comes to the same conclusion, chances are they've overcome their biases. If the odd man out disagrees, chances are it's because of his individual biases.
You've got some kind of creepy 'group think' going on... Ed67 writes:
Again, if one person sees pink elephants and the group doesn't, chances are the odd man out is hallucinating.
... where you all have developed the same blind spots.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Ed67 writes:
Did you understand the one from the University of Washington? How about explaining it in your own words?
Did you notice the one from the University of Washington? Ed67 writes:
As I've explained several times, all molecules react with other molecules based on their structure. If you take a beaker full of B and throw in some ABRACADABRA, you'll get some BABRACADABRA and some ABRACADABRAB and some BABRACADABRAB. Bs are less likely to bond to the other As becacause they are "shielded" by neighbouring atoms - i.e. it's harder for Bs to approach. And, since you know so much about chemistry, and are dying to share it, would you please explain your statement:
ringo writes: ...so every molecule has a "code" that's "embedded" in it exactly the same way [as DNA]. That's how all chemistry works. There's nothing special about DNA.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Ed67 writes:
It contains the code for building of salt crystals. It's exactly the same kind of code as DNA; only the details are different.
SALT DOES NOT CONTAIN THE CODE FOR BUILDING OF PROTEINS.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Ed67 writes:
That's like asking if I have any citations to back up the statement that the earth is round. Few papers have been published on the subject lately because it's something that every schoolboy knows. If you understood the sources you were quoting, you'd know it too.
ringo writes:
Do you have any citations, evidence, or explanation to back up this statement? All I'm saying is that... every molecule has a "code" that's "embedded" in it exactly the same way.[as DNA]
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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FLRW writes:
Sometimes a defect is a "feature". Just ask MicroSoft.
3% of humans are born with a major defect.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
FLWR writes:
Insects have six legs and they're arguably more successful that humans. The reason we don't have six legs is because we evolved from tetrapods, not because it's a bad "idea". What would be the feature of a six legged human baby? So what's your point? Flaws indicate design?
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
FLRW writes:
Evolution explains such anomalies quite nicely. How does ID explain them? zr, recently in the news there was a story about a baby born with 6 legs. According to the Theory of Evolution, if there is a survival advantage to six legs - i.e. if the baby lives long enough to reproduce - there is a chance that the trait will be passed on to future generations and eventually there may be a species of six-legged humanoids. But there doesn't seem to be much of an advantage. According to ID, what?
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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mram10 writes:
How does a lion "decide" which zebra to eat? Simple: the one he can catch. Where did natural selection get it's intelligence? The slow zebras get eaten. The zebras that happen to evolve more speed get a chance to pass it on to their offspring. No intelligence needed, just natural consequences. Edited by zombie ringo, : Splling.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
taiji2 writes:
That's it. Stay in the game and ignore the baiting remarks. I've been on the "wrong" side in a couple of debates here, going against half a dozen or more - but I try to be gentle with them. Just keep shooting and ignore the bullets whizzing past your head.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
taiji2 writes:
So you can pick them up like a six-pack. The joke is simply the question "Why did God design woman with the sewer so close to the playground". Jokes don't have to make sense; they just have to be funny. That's why ID is more of a joke than a sensible argument.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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taiji2 writes:
We get a lot of people here who "have doubts about evolution" (without knowing the first thing about it). They have never been to a creationist website (yet they know all of the creationist rhetoric verbatim). They are not religious (though they believe in a miraculous origin of the univere rather than a scientific one). Who are people like me? Are you putting me in a group? If so what group? Are you really different from "the group"?
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
taiji2 writes:
The question is: Do you doubt evolution because of what you know about it or because of what you don't know? I know a little about evolution as science views it even though I admit my scientific knowledge on the subject is limited. For example, it makes sense to doubt that there are any Volswagens on the moon because we hava a pretty good idea of what human constructions are on the moon. However, it would be foolish to doubt that there are any Volkswagens in Bolivia unless you had some pretty concrete information about it. So what do you know about evolution that causes your doubts?
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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taiji2 writes:
Nobody does. Science, by its very nature is "adjustable". Everybody who accepts science expects the theory of evolution to be modified on an ongoing basis. I do not doubt evolution. That said, I do not concede that the current model of evolution of life for instance is infallible. However, we expect the modifications to be relatively small. By analogy, we might expect to see some different ideas arise about the history of France between the World Wars. However, we would not expect to see the history of France beginning with some woo-woo "design".
taiji2 writes:
Any idea that is not supported by evidence is fanciful by definition.
It is the notion that evolution explains all and everything else is fanciful imagination that I object to.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
taiji2 writes:
You tell me. What earth-shattering changes in the theory of evolution would that discovery cause? Pertinent to the topic, how would it point toward design?
Would the discovery that DNA is frontloaded and the 92% of unused human DNA represents potential as well as evolution be considered relatively small? taiji2 writes:
It's not even a real hypothesis until you propose a way of testing it.
This is a pet theory, not a real theory. taiji2 writes:
Because "design" suggests "designer" and "insert miracle here".
Why does everyone say "woo-woo" or some other equally derogatory term when mentioning design? taiji2 writes:
But it isn't simple, is it? Nobody seems to be able to tell us what "design" would look like if it was there. The only tests for "design" that I've seen are the equivalent of, "If it looks like an elephant it must be designed."
If design is there it is simply design. If design is not there it is simply not there. taiji2 writes:
Why not? What's the difference between designing France and designing DNA?
I would never make the proposition that god said "let there be France" taiji2 writes:
That's odd. I consulted Merriam-Webster and I found:
ringo writes:
I have consulted Merriam-Webster and did not see evidence mentioned. Any idea that is not supported by evidence is fanciful by definition.quote:"Experience" would be evidence.
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