Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,889 Year: 4,146/9,624 Month: 1,017/974 Week: 344/286 Day: 65/40 Hour: 1/5


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Is there a legitimate argument for design?
ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(4)
Message 258 of 638 (725372)
04-26-2014 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 246 by Ed67
04-25-2014 9:55 PM


Re: What does the CODE in DNA do?
Ed67 writes:
You are desperate to squash the idea of a code embedded in the DNA/RNA molecule.
All I'm saying is that the "code" that's "embedded" in DNA is its structure - and that every other molecule has its own structure too, so every molecule has a "code" that's "embedded" in it exactly the same way.
Ed67 writes:
Where do you think I got those quotes from?
I'm assuming that you got the quotes accurately from Crick and/or Watson. I don't know where you got your misunderstanding of those quotes. They don't mean what you think they mean.
Since you don't understand chemistry, you can't expect to understand quotes about chemistry.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 246 by Ed67, posted 04-25-2014 9:55 PM Ed67 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 260 by Ed67, posted 04-26-2014 9:12 PM ringo has replied
 Message 284 by Ed67, posted 04-27-2014 12:18 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 259 of 638 (725373)
04-26-2014 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 235 by Ed67
04-25-2014 7:58 AM


Ed67 writes:
You've got some kind of creepy 'group think' going on...
"Group think" is actually related to objectivity. If the group comes to the same conclusion, chances are they've overcome their biases. If the odd man out disagrees, chances are it's because of his individual biases.
Ed67 writes:
... where you all have developed the same blind spots.
Again, if one person sees pink elephants and the group doesn't, chances are the odd man out is hallucinating.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by Ed67, posted 04-25-2014 7:58 AM Ed67 has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 297 of 638 (725550)
04-28-2014 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 260 by Ed67
04-26-2014 9:12 PM


Re: What does the CODE in DNA do?
Ed67 writes:
Did you notice the one from the University of Washington?
Did you understand the one from the University of Washington? How about explaining it in your own words?
Ed67 writes:
And, since you know so much about chemistry, and are dying to share it, would you please explain your statement:
ringo writes:
...so every molecule has a "code" that's "embedded" in it exactly the same way [as DNA].
As I've explained several times, all molecules react with other molecules based on their structure. If you take a beaker full of B and throw in some ABRACADABRA, you'll get some BABRACADABRA and some ABRACADABRAB and some BABRACADABRAB. Bs are less likely to bond to the other As becacause they are "shielded" by neighbouring atoms - i.e. it's harder for Bs to approach.
That's how all chemistry works. There's nothing special about DNA.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 260 by Ed67, posted 04-26-2014 9:12 PM Ed67 has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 298 of 638 (725552)
04-28-2014 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 268 by Ed67
04-26-2014 11:38 PM


Re: What does the CODE in DNA do?
Ed67 writes:
SALT DOES NOT CONTAIN THE CODE FOR BUILDING OF PROTEINS.
It contains the code for building of salt crystals. It's exactly the same kind of code as DNA; only the details are different.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 268 by Ed67, posted 04-26-2014 11:38 PM Ed67 has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 299 of 638 (725553)
04-28-2014 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 284 by Ed67
04-27-2014 12:18 PM


Re: What does the CODE in DNA do?
Ed67 writes:
ringo writes:
All I'm saying is that... every molecule has a "code" that's "embedded" in it exactly the same way.[as DNA]
Do you have any citations, evidence, or explanation to back up this statement?
That's like asking if I have any citations to back up the statement that the earth is round. Few papers have been published on the subject lately because it's something that every schoolboy knows. If you understood the sources you were quoting, you'd know it too.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 284 by Ed67, posted 04-27-2014 12:18 PM Ed67 has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 324 of 638 (733245)
07-15-2014 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 322 by FLRW
07-15-2014 11:09 AM


FLRW writes:
3% of humans are born with a major defect.
Sometimes a defect is a "feature". Just ask MicroSoft.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 322 by FLRW, posted 07-15-2014 11:09 AM FLRW has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 329 of 638 (733464)
07-17-2014 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 325 by FLRW
07-17-2014 11:14 AM


FLWR writes:
What would be the feature of a six legged human baby?
Insects have six legs and they're arguably more successful that humans. The reason we don't have six legs is because we evolved from tetrapods, not because it's a bad "idea".
So what's your point? Flaws indicate design?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 325 by FLRW, posted 07-17-2014 11:14 AM FLRW has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 333 of 638 (733474)
07-17-2014 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 330 by FLRW
07-17-2014 1:00 PM


FLRW writes:
zr, recently in the news there was a story about a baby born with 6 legs.
Evolution explains such anomalies quite nicely. How does ID explain them?
According to the Theory of Evolution, if there is a survival advantage to six legs - i.e. if the baby lives long enough to reproduce - there is a chance that the trait will be passed on to future generations and eventually there may be a species of six-legged humanoids. But there doesn't seem to be much of an advantage.
According to ID, what?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 330 by FLRW, posted 07-17-2014 1:00 PM FLRW has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(3)
Message 341 of 638 (734253)
07-27-2014 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 336 by mram10
07-26-2014 5:43 PM


mram10 writes:
Where did natural selection get it's intelligence?
How does a lion "decide" which zebra to eat? Simple: the one he can catch.
The slow zebras get eaten. The zebras that happen to evolve more speed get a chance to pass it on to their offspring. No intelligence needed, just natural consequences.
Edited by zombie ringo, : Splling.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 336 by mram10, posted 07-26-2014 5:43 PM mram10 has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 374 of 638 (736713)
09-12-2014 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 372 by taiji2
09-12-2014 12:21 PM


Re: Answer Pt. 2 : Design And Evolution
taiji2 writes:
Stay in the game and ignore the baiting remarks.
That's it.
I've been on the "wrong" side in a couple of debates here, going against half a dozen or more - but I try to be gentle with them.
Just keep shooting and ignore the bullets whizzing past your head.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 372 by taiji2, posted 09-12-2014 12:21 PM taiji2 has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 411 of 638 (736802)
09-13-2014 12:28 PM
Reply to: Message 399 by taiji2
09-12-2014 6:16 PM


Re: Welcome
taiji2 writes:
The joke is simply the question "Why did God design woman with the sewer so close to the playground".
So you can pick them up like a six-pack.
Jokes don't have to make sense; they just have to be funny. That's why ID is more of a joke than a sensible argument.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 399 by taiji2, posted 09-12-2014 6:16 PM taiji2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 413 by taiji2, posted 09-13-2014 1:04 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 505 of 638 (737061)
09-16-2014 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 496 by taiji2
09-16-2014 4:15 AM


Re: The Tao
taiji2 writes:
Who are people like me? Are you putting me in a group? If so what group?
We get a lot of people here who "have doubts about evolution" (without knowing the first thing about it). They have never been to a creationist website (yet they know all of the creationist rhetoric verbatim). They are not religious (though they believe in a miraculous origin of the univere rather than a scientific one).
Are you really different from "the group"?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 496 by taiji2, posted 09-16-2014 4:15 AM taiji2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 509 by taiji2, posted 09-16-2014 3:17 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 536 of 638 (737115)
09-17-2014 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 509 by taiji2
09-16-2014 3:17 PM


Re: The Tao
taiji2 writes:
I know a little about evolution as science views it even though I admit my scientific knowledge on the subject is limited.
The question is: Do you doubt evolution because of what you know about it or because of what you don't know?
For example, it makes sense to doubt that there are any Volswagens on the moon because we hava a pretty good idea of what human constructions are on the moon. However, it would be foolish to doubt that there are any Volkswagens in Bolivia unless you had some pretty concrete information about it.
So what do you know about evolution that causes your doubts?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 509 by taiji2, posted 09-16-2014 3:17 PM taiji2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 538 by taiji2, posted 09-17-2014 12:14 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 539 of 638 (737119)
09-17-2014 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 538 by taiji2
09-17-2014 12:14 PM


Re: The Tao
taiji2 writes:
I do not doubt evolution. That said, I do not concede that the current model of evolution of life for instance is infallible.
Nobody does. Science, by its very nature is "adjustable". Everybody who accepts science expects the theory of evolution to be modified on an ongoing basis.
However, we expect the modifications to be relatively small. By analogy, we might expect to see some different ideas arise about the history of France between the World Wars. However, we would not expect to see the history of France beginning with some woo-woo "design".
taiji2 writes:
It is the notion that evolution explains all and everything else is fanciful imagination that I object to.
Any idea that is not supported by evidence is fanciful by definition.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 538 by taiji2, posted 09-17-2014 12:14 PM taiji2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 540 by taiji2, posted 09-17-2014 1:19 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 541 of 638 (737122)
09-17-2014 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 540 by taiji2
09-17-2014 1:19 PM


Re: The Tao
taiji2 writes:
Would the discovery that DNA is frontloaded and the 92% of unused human DNA represents potential as well as evolution be considered relatively small?
You tell me. What earth-shattering changes in the theory of evolution would that discovery cause? Pertinent to the topic, how would it point toward design?
taiji2 writes:
This is a pet theory, not a real theory.
It's not even a real hypothesis until you propose a way of testing it.
taiji2 writes:
Why does everyone say "woo-woo" or some other equally derogatory term when mentioning design?
Because "design" suggests "designer" and "insert miracle here".
taiji2 writes:
If design is there it is simply design. If design is not there it is simply not there.
But it isn't simple, is it? Nobody seems to be able to tell us what "design" would look like if it was there. The only tests for "design" that I've seen are the equivalent of, "If it looks like an elephant it must be designed."
taiji2 writes:
I would never make the proposition that god said "let there be France"
Why not? What's the difference between designing France and designing DNA?
taiji2 writes:
ringo writes:
Any idea that is not supported by evidence is fanciful by definition.
I have consulted Merriam-Webster and did not see evidence mentioned.
That's odd. I consulted Merriam-Webster and I found:
quote:
1: marked by fancy or unrestrained imagination rather than by reason and experience link
"Experience" would be evidence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 540 by taiji2, posted 09-17-2014 1:19 PM taiji2 has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024