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Author | Topic: Is the Bible the inerrant word of God? Or is it the words of men? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member |
But I'm also sure your characterization of me as denying things I don't like is just your own prejudice. I can provide as many examples as you'd like. But for now, this current statement of yours fits the bill. Your 'memory' is off again.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
All the members of which - just like you - claiming the one they happen to be attached to is the correct one. That's really not what all of us believe. Yes there are some central tenets of Christianity, but there is a large amount of agreement on those particular issues. When cornered, Faith readily admits to that, with the exception of insisting that Catholics get it all wrong. Most of the 'order of service' you find practiced in Churches is based on tradition and custom. Those kinds of things are the largest difference between churches. It is true that belief in the Triune nature of God is the mainstream belief. But that doctrine is generally not what any Christian would tell you is necessary to believe in order to be saved. It is however a reason for fundamentalists to tell you the fear for your immortal soul regardless of what they told you about salvation. Not even the Pope insists that only Catholics worship Jesus correctly. Faith and may others do of course does make the claim that only their versions of Christianity can be correct. Many other Christians acknowledge that very few tenets are essential to Christianity whatever it is that they themselves prefer.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
The points you're trying to make about Catholicism and the Trinity and other things are underlain by a work of fiction, and speaking just for myself there is no interest in arguments based upon fiction. You can't base arguments upon myths and legends. But NoNukes seems willing to accept the authority of the Bible for the sake of discussion. Perhaps this kind of discussion does not belong this particular forum. But haven't we had past discussions where we've looked at inconsistencies in the Bible? In any event, I think I should be allowed to address an argument at my chosen point. I am not the only person here who points out that Faith cannot or at least has not made a case of any kind.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
My occasional comments about topic are more just marveling at Faith's attitude that the rules don't apply to her. Judging us hopeless regarding the topic, she feels free to introduce whatever other topics she likes. Okay. That's reasonable. In any event, I'm not the only person here who seems willing to discuss Bible based arguments. Jar has taken on some of those arguments. Regardless of whether you are moderating or not, I take the point that Bible-based arguments are actually off topic, and I won't engage in further posts along those lines. Given that Faith isn't actually addressing such questions anyway, I don't see how the discussion would suffer. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Even though the majority of its doctrines and practices are clearly anything but Christian and I showed that, you are still going to insist that it's "the largest Christian church." This is really amazing. Do you not understand the problem you are encountering? Nobody here seems to agree with your definition of what constitutes Christianity, thus they cannot reach the same conclusion as you about which doctrines are none Christian and which are not. During past discussions we've seen you complain about everything Catholic including the shape of their hats. Here we see you complaining about Popes calling themselves Father, while in other posts we find you making excuses for the Divine Right of Kings doctrine. Because King James must be found to have lived a blameless life. Given that kind of waffling, I see nothing really so amazing. I suppose you might find the positions of other amazing because you never seem to appreciate how people reach different conclusions on any topic. Faith's conclusions are always obvious. Or so goes the brag of Colonel McBrag. Even for simple things such as the definition of 'parallel' and 'mainstream' there always seems to be a 'Faith definition' that resounds only with you. And finally, what kind of argument is claiming the 'mainstream' anyway? Is it not the case that there are far more people who claim to be Christians than there are people who actually saved? Clearly, being in the majority is no guarantee that you are on the right path. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
A Christian must die for his faith, not save his life but give it for Christ. Big difference there. Interesting claim. Surely you are familiar with the very famous Biblical counter-example to what you claim.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Unless you recall Jesus telling Peter to expect to be clothed in glorious robes and have a bejeweled tiara put on his head as he rules the flock from Rome. This is exactly the kind of nonsense that costs you whatever is left of your flagging credibility. Jesus said nothing about this stuff. And further it is of next to no consequence how the Pope, a bishop, or your pastor dresses. Did Jesus tell Peter to wear black pants with a vest and suspenders? Did Jesus tell Peter to dress in cowboy boots, 10 gallon hat, and jeans with holes in the knees? No. The Pope does lots of stuff that isn't mentioned in the Bible. So what? So do all Christians. Doing things not mentioned in the Bible is not necessarily a sin or evil or wrong. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
After this thread, on which my opponents have reached a new low of irrationality beyond even my own most jaundiced anticipation Isn't this essentially the same thing you say every thread? Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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If you think that last post of yours is a reasonable answer to what I've been saying, you've outdone yourself on this thread far beyond any of the others. Isn't this what you say every thread? Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
What other basis for Christian doctrine and belief could there be but the Bible, since there is no other source of information about Jesus Christ and his teachings? Posters other than this particular poster might have a few concerns for this particular 'Rational EvC-er' 1) What impressions did people form about Jesus in the decade or more between when Christ lived and the first Gospel was completed? 2) Which of the many possible interpretations of scripture is correct? 3) Why is Faith so concerned about the Pope's hat? And why does she deny that Protestants have ever persecuted other Christians and Catholics? Why does she make excuses for anti-semitism?
I for one thank you for informing us of these things. We can find hatred of Catholicism anywhere on the internet. But thank you for the peek inside the mind of a hater.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Get a room.
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
mistake
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
which some other versions literally translate as "God breathed. Yes, but that turns out to be of no help whatsoever. The term "God breathed" simply means inspired by God. No more and no less. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
So I went looking for preaching on inspiration and inerrancy. Here's the first sermon I decided to listen to I'm sure everyone here knows that you are not alone in believing in literal Bible inerrancy and that you are not alone in claiming that God wrote the Bible. So is a sermon from anyone else who says this stuff going to convince us either that you are right or that your belief is 'THE' Christian belief? Hardly. I'm not adverse to listening to a sermon or two, but surely this kind of recommendation does not amount to much of an incentive. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
I've been told I'm not representing the orthodox Christian point of view. These sermons are intended to show that's wrong. I understand. But how can any single person or group's sermons do that? They cannot.
I've been told I'm wrong to claim that inspiration and inerrancy go together, meaning of course according to the orthodox point of view. These sermons answer that too. All sermons are just someone's opinion. Again, this forum exists because we know that people interpret the Bible in this way. By the way, some sect has already co-opted the term Orthodox. I think in order to correctly call your beliefs orthodox, you are going to have to add in so many qualifiers as to make the term meaningless. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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