Summations Only

Yes, very silly of you. You self define, then claim to be in the majority. You never cease to amaze.

Can you show me where in the bible you get this?
Evil spirits in the bible generally come from god. If mental illness is caused by evil sprints, generally caused by god, what do you think the individuals did to warrant the evil spirit injection, generally from god?Edited by Admin, : Fix first quote.

You do understand that is really pretty easy to determine don't you Faith? At least in the world of reality as opposed to the Christian Cult of Ignorance it is.A True Christian is a recognized member of any one of the thousands of chapters of Club Christian.A True Mason is a recognized member of any one of the thousands of chapters of Club Masonic.A True Elk is a recognized member of any one of the thousands of chapters of Club Elks.A True Republican is a recognized member of any one of the thousands of chapters of Club Republican.A True Democrat is a recognized member of any one of the thousands of chapters of Club Democrat.A member of the Christian Cult of Ignorance is equally easy to recognize. They claim that Calvinism is not what Calvin says, that Biblical Inerrancy means that the Bible actually does not say what is actually written, that other Christians are not True Christians and that reality agrees with what is written in the Bible stories.

I did not say I don't believe it. I do. I accept it as true but I also added that like a lot of things we believe I can't know it to be true. Yes, it does read like something of a legend but that doesn't tell us one way or another whether or about whether or not it is historical.

No I have often filled in when the rector/minister/pastor was away so I have actually given sermons, (hopefully I didn't preach ) but not on the virgin birth.I probably went too far in comparing the nativity narrative to the parables. However as I explained earlier that you can draw parallels between the nativity story and the Christian message just as you can with the parables.To take a simple example we can look at the father in the story of the Prodigal Son and see a forgiving father and so we can then see in that parable a forgiving God. We can look at the nativity story and see Jesus being born in very humble circumstances and we can see a God that reaches out to those that live their lives in very humble circumstances.Edited by GDR, : typos etc

The nativity story IS a legend. It's a backstory entered as a narratory device. You don't really believe it literally happened that way. Or do you?

You do understand, don't you, that I was talking about a professor of literature, who may have had no religious beliefs whatever as far as I know, who said he thought it possible that demons did in fact exist and were the cause of mental illness, just as some ancient literature said. I didn't offer my own opinion at all.Well, I did answer your question about evil spirits, saying they are fallen angels, which is derived from the reference to the fall of Lucifer in Isaiah and Ezekiel, who according to Revelation 12 was cast out of heaven with a third of the angels.I don't see the relevance of your questions and it would just take us far away from my intent if I try to answer them further. I thought it very interesting in a startling way that a professor who was probably an unbeliever would say such a thing. Don't you?Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

What I find unbelievable is that anyone would do anything more than laugh at the idea of taking a lit prof's opinion on the causes of mental illness as anything but a joke or that anyone who thought that demons should be taken seriously could be taken seriously.

Oh he was quite serious. It wouldn't have been startling at all otherwise. All he said, as I recall, was something like he wasn't at all sure the ancients weren't right about that, and it was in a tone of disgust toward modern psychiatry and psychology. But this was a long time ago and who knows how good my memory is about this. All I know is he was quite serious and it was very startling.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

I don't question that the prof was serious; what I said was that I find it unbelievable that anyone could take what he said seriously.

Faith who gives a damn what some professor thinks is the cause of anything? Did he offer proof? That's a rhetorical question, of course he didn't. Most likely you were drawn to this because you like what you heard. So you want to believe it's true. The guy had letters behind his name and thus you believe it's credible, but mostly because you want to believe that stuff. Well I have all kinds of letters behind my name and you're not going to believe what I say. Nor should you, based on that alone.I brought up the god causing evil spirits not as a red herring, but because the natural assumption of Christians is the devil causes them. Now, I don't believe any of it, but you do and if you do, the bible shows god is causing most evil spirits. So factor that in to the demon/ mental illness thing and you get an unexpected answer.

I don't care if you believe the professor or not. That misses the point. I wasn't a Christian at the time and I don't think he was but what he said was very startling. Nobody I knew believed in demons but here was a man, a highly educated man, apparently considering they could be real. It's quite startling really. That was my point. Until you get my point there's no reason for me to continue with yours.

What do you mean "could take what he said seriously?" All I said was that he was apparently very serious about the possibility of demons and I found it very startling that an educated man could have such an opinion. A serious thoughtful professor of literature. What should I have done with the information according to you? Decided the man was a lunatic? He remained a serious thoughtful professor of literature publishing his work in literary journals, who seriously considered that demons might be real. It was startling.

You should have laughed at the assertion and understood the person was simply speaking from his ass and showing that even educated intelligent people can be ignorant idiots.

Amazing, I remembered the title of the article and googled it and found out the author's name is Erich Heller. "The dismantling of a marionette theater" is the title of the article. I didn't download the whole thing but that is definitely it. I see it's heavily religious in character, which at that time I wouldn't have had any way of assessing, but it's basically philosophy, not Christianity, and he's addressing psychoanalytic thinking. The only thing that hit me personally was the mention of demons. There are a number of sites where the article is published or discussed. Here's oneHeller was a religious philosopher among other things though considered himself an agnostic according to Wikipedia, which also says he believed in the Fall but not a very biblical understanding of it. Erich Heller - WikipediaABE: An article by a religious philosopher about German literature, even if it uses Biblical concepts, would mythify those concepts. You find that sort of thing a lot in literary and philosophical discussions, and also in psychoanalytic discussions. That's normal. What I remember being so startling was that he brought up demons and did NOT mythify them but took them straight. In a way I don't want to reread the article because it had that impact on me at the time and might not now. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.