Summations Only

Too funny but you are just showing your ignorance yet again. Many religions specifically say they have prophecy; I even gave you a specific example with the Ragnark.Do you know anything about history?

You keep making that claim yet never offer any support for your assertion. Why is it we have never been able to get a Biblical Christian to show us even a single example of "genuine prophecy" that can stand up to examination?You keep making that claim but always refuse to provide Chapter and Verse so that the claim might be examined. There is even a whole thread (Are any of these prophecies fulfilled by Jesus?) devoted to looking at such claimed prophecy but unfortunately not one has turned out to be supportable so far.Perhaps you have other examples of the prophecy you claim is there and we could take a look at them too?

So the simple truth is that once again you cannot or will not offer anything to support your assertions.Got it.But just for the record there is the thread ( Are any of these prophecies fulfilled by Jesus? ) and if you actually had any support then it would seem you could provide at least a single example.The sad part and why you should be pitied is that despite what you claim I do, what I actually do is post just what the Bible stories really say so that everyone can see whether or not what I claim is a lie.

So you claim Faith but that is not what the Bible Actually says is it? Do I have to post the passages here yet again?You know that I can and I will Faith.

Except Faith, according to the Bible he cannot tell the story the same way twice in a row. As I pointed out back in Message 1841 the stories are filled with contradictions. Two were likely written down within a year of each other but still for being the most dramatic event of his life seem like not one event but two totally different ones.The accounts found in Acts are not first person accounts told by Paul but rather the author of Acts writing dialog for the Paul character in the narrative. Those two accounts also vary with the later definitely being written to play to a Jewish audience.Shall I post all of them here again or can you just use the link to see what the Bible actually says Faith as opposed to what you claim it says?If the Bible really were the inerrant word of God wouldn't you think God could get the story straight?

Henny Youngman anybody?Like Jesus, another nice Jewish boy.Edited by jar, : hit wrong key

Thanks for providing yet more evidence that the Bible is not the inerrant word of God Faith. Knew I could count on you.Let's look yet again at what the Bible actually says Faith.The earliest account is from First Corinthians. It is very simple and straight forward and just says Paul claims to have seen Jesus after his death.

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1 Corinthians 15:3-8King James Version (KJV):

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3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

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4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

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5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:

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6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

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7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.

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8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

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Just a simple story, no one else with him, no voices, no light, no struck blind; just a claim to have seen Jesus and note that he is only repeating what is said in scripture of the day; no revelation.About a year later there is the account found in Galatians.

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Galatians 1:11-16King James Version (KJV)

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11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

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12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

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13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:

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14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.

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15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

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16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

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Now the story has been elaborated a little, Instead of preaching what he learned from Scripture he claims a revelation of Jesus Christ and that he was called by God, not Jesus to preach about Jesus. But still no voices, no lights, no companions, no struck blind, no vision regained ...While elaboration and adding elements to a story is perfectly normal for humans, it does destroy any claim of inerrancy.But wait, there's more. Then we come to the hearsay reports found in Acts. In Acts we see the author writing dialog for the Paul Character that again expands on the earlier simple tale and adds all kinds of woo factors that just were not in the original ones, the light and voices and blindness and witnesses that see different things in the two tales and do different things in the two tales plus the later account is definitely tailored to play well to a Jewish audience.

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Acts 9:3-9King James Version (KJV)

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3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:

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4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

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5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

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6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

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7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.

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8 And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.

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9 And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.

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Acts 22 King James Version (KJV)

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22 Men, brethren, and fathers, hear ye my defence which I make now unto you.

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2 (And when they heard that he spake in the Hebrew tongue to them, they kept the more silence: and he saith,)

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3 I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.

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4 And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.

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5 As also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished.

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6 And it came to pass, that, as I made my journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus about noon, suddenly there shone from heaven a great light round about me.

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7 And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

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8 And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest.

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9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.

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10 And I said, What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do.

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11 And when I could not see for the glory of that light, being led by the hand of them that were with me, I came into Damascus.

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12 And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there,

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13 Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him.

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14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.

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15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.

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16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

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So yes, humans do vary stories when they retell them and elaborate and exaggerate and make stuff up and embellish but those are all human characteristics not of inerrancy.Edited by jar, : appalin spallin: form ---> from

The whole joke called Biblical Inerrancy is a fairly modern concept (mostly 70s) that was the creation of a very small, very human conclave of Evangelical Marketeers. It was not anything well thought out and was infact produced at a three day Fly in to O'Hare (good Catholic boy) Regency. It was not subject to testing or debate or examination by any who had not already made up their minds. All the attendees had decided before the conference had even started that the goal and conclusion would be a "Statement" affirming inerrancy.Like most of Faith's posts the Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy offers no support for its position and simply says "here is the final word". It just claims that the original autographs are inerrant and even if there are no original autographs it don't matter.It's an interesting look into the mind and so called thought patterns of the "Biblical Christian" Hucksters.Edited by jar, : appalin spallin, dropped a "t"

Does Acts 9:7 say:

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7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.

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Does Acts 22:9 say:

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9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.

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"Truth" is not a very important aspect in most cases. Reality and facts are. What is needed is not "Truth" as a comparison but rather facts and reality.We determine errors many ways. One is to compare and contrast as I did in Message 1880. Here are two mutually exclusive statements from the same document. I know of no way to tell whether either is true but since they are mutually exclusive then at least one if not both must be false. Well, no he did not. Read what you quoted. There Jesus only claims to act as a witness but it says nothing about what is true or false. Too funny. Are Crystal Pyramids in vogue this week or is it Dancing naked in the Oak Groves? When it comes to spirituality one thing is abundantly evidenced and that is truth constantly changes. Of course. There is the Eight Fold Path, the writings of Confucius and Mencius, the Vedas. the ... Of course words did not exist before they were invented. Words are created by men.

But the Bible does not say what you claim it might say.Does Acts 9:7 say:

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7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.

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Does Acts 22:9 say:

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9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.

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First, regardless of whether or not either version is true, it is conclusive evidence that the Bible is not Inerrant.But remember that Paul is not saying anything in Acts. Acts is some author or authors writing dialog for the characters in the stories. And neither story shows any resemblance to the stories Paul wrote in First Corinthians or in Galatians as I point out in Message 1867.The obvious conclusion is that the Bible is not the inerrant word of God and unless you can offer convincing evidence to refute that conclusion the case is pretty much closed.

Well no, that is NOT what inerrant means and we have no originals and I covered the CSBI nonsense that is Biblical Inerrancy in Message 1872.Item 4 of that silly document says:

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4. Being wholly and verbally God-given, Scripture is without error or fault in all its teaching, no less in what it states about God's acts in creation, about the events of world history, and about its own literary origins under God, than in its witness to God's saving grace in individual lives.

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The stories of Paul's experience on the road to Damascus could only be God-given if the god is one that can't keep facts straight and makes up embellishments over time.The two accounts that Paul most likely wrote show NO resemblance to the fanciful stories found in Acts.AbE:The CSBI is a great example of the basic dishonesty of Biblical Christianity. A bunch of the leading lights of the Christian Cult of Ignorance flew into Chicago to sign a statement of faith. There was no attempt to determine truth or even accuracy. There was no presentation of evidence that might refute the position, just a great example of confirmation bias in action.Edited by jar, : see AbE

But we cannot trust its teaching about the history of Paul's conversion can we? It does not seem to be able to get that history down the same in four different accounts.

Again Faith, as I have pointed out several times in this very thread, that is simply not true. Read what I wrote and documented in Message 1867.The four account are not in perfect accord with one another.

So let's look at what Acts 26 says:

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12 Whereupon as I went to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests,

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13 At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me.

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14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

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15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.

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16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;

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17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,

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18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

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19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:

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20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

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So here is yet another different version of the story, again, no blindness, no companions on the road with him.Faith I'm not sure how adding yet another version of the story helps your case since even if they are Paul's words being reported by the author of Acts, they are yet again another different set of words.