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Author | Topic: Is the Bible the inerrant word of God? Or is it the words of men? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Quite true, we've left the topic, but as I'm sure you know I can produce the Bible support for my orthodox traditional view that Jesus died for our sins on this thread or elsewhere as you prefer.
Once we are saved then our deeds count and will count as part of our salvation, but not until we've received the salvation He paid for on the cross. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Only you can't produce your Bible support without pretending mine doesn't exist, whereas I can take yours into account along with mine.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
So Christianity is "different" because it's the only religion to offer a "solution" to a "problem it invented. That's not exactly a useful difference if you're trying to claim that Christianity is better than other religions. abe: Christianity is not at all different or unique in recognition of sin and judgment and an afterlife that punishes sin; it's only unique in that it offers a solution to a problem that is universally recognized in one way or another. /abe Since Christianity didn't invent Hell I assume you'll take your chances that all those other cultures and religions just made up the idea so you needn't bother about the offered solution. Your call, of course, but I rather think one might reasonably take some heed to the universal or near-universal concept of such an afterlife. But again, your call. Or maybe you think you are so good you wouldn't go there anyway. abe: Christianity didn't invent the idea of sin and judgment either of course, it merely revealed its true reality, same as with Hell. Even the idea of "karma" is an expression of a universal law that inexorably judges us. Again, an imperfect idea which is presented more accurately in the Bible. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Oh get real. Hell is universal, the problem is universal, only the solution is unique. There is NO solution worthy of the name solution offered anywhere, nothing even remotely similar to Jesus' taking all our sins on Himself and dying in our place. GET REAL.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I said nothing about Calvin. Jesus died for our sins, not Calvin, and that is the core teaching of every branch of Christianity. Except weird revisionists like jar.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I left the Calvinism discussion when it was clear everybody was distorting it. This thread is not about Calvin. But why do you keep assuming you aren't one of the Elect? There is nothing even in the craziest forms of Calvinism that I know of that gives you warrant to assume that.
I'm very sorry you can't see the specialness of Christ dying for our sins.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
You left the Calvinism discussion because you disagreed with Calvin. No I disagreed with what was being said about what he meant. I left the Calvinism discussion when people were insisting he was saying things I don't believe he meant based on what I've learned over the years, but I'm not in a position to argue it so I got out of it. It's no different from disagreeing with jar who is always insisting that his reading of scripture is THE reading of scripture, allowing for no others. I'm not disagreeing with scripture, I'm disagreeing with jar but at some point there is no point in trying to argue about it. Be as sure as you like that you know what Calvin meant, the discussion is over for me.
With regard to election it really doesn't matter if I am Elect or not. If the statement "Jesus died for our sins" is only true when one of the Elect is speaking to others who are all also Elect, it is not a general truth, as other Christian denominations would claim. The Elect are a small minority. See that's the problem with discussions about Calvinism, which I keep telling myself I'll never ever get into again and I'm sorry I did again. I've believed it because I believe it's Biblical but when others don't see it that way it only causes unnecessary problems and it's dangerous even to try to discuss it. it doesn't MATTER what Calvin said, forget Calvin. THERE IS NO WAY TO KNOW WHO ARE THE ELECT BEFORE THEY ARE SAVED. There is no way anyone could have guessed before I was saved that I could ever be saved, and looking back on it I'm truly amazed. I was about the last candidate for salvation I would have imagined. You CAN'T second-guess this stuff. As for how many, don't assume anything about that either:
Rev 7:9: After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And really it's not a question of "seeing" how special the Christian"solution" to Hell is, it's a question of how to get from there to the conclusion that Christianity is likely to be true. And if that is just a subjective impression then it is not a good argument Really, argument and debate are NOT the way people get saved. How do you get from here to salvation by the cross: Believe, that's all. That's what scripture says, that's what Jesus taught. "Repent and believe the gospel." All that happened to me was that I suddenly believed it. I wasn't argued into it, I simply believed it when I understood it. You have no idea how powerful belief is until you believe. abe: Mark 9:23-24 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth. And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
It's like gold to brass and I can't even give it away, nobody can tell the difference, alas.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
You come up with so much nonsense I can't keep up with you either. Why is there a problem with God's anointing a special number for special purposes as versus the enormous number of believers that are shown after that?
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I answered you, no excuses, don't get your problem.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined:
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2 Peter 3:16: As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest [twist, distort], as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Psalm 56:5 Every day they wrest [twist, distort] my words: all their thoughts are against me for evil.
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