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Author Topic:   Being offended.
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1998
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 361 of 380 (847098)
01-18-2019 5:57 AM
Reply to: Message 351 by Faith
01-13-2019 7:29 AM


Me, me me. I can answer this one.

Faith writes:

What I'd like to know is the causes of the extreme poverty and lack of education that drives people to the US

Having more children than you can afford to feed and educate. That's about it.

The US also has that problem.

It really is easy. If you can't feed them, don't breed them. Simpsons expression. Duh!

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 351 by Faith, posted 01-13-2019 7:29 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 362 by AZPaul3, posted 01-18-2019 7:35 AM Pressie has not yet responded
 Message 363 by Faith, posted 01-20-2019 9:15 AM Pressie has responded
 Message 365 by Phat, posted 01-20-2019 9:52 AM Pressie has not yet responded

    
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3766
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.4


(2)
Message 362 of 380 (847100)
01-18-2019 7:35 AM
Reply to: Message 361 by Pressie
01-18-2019 5:57 AM


Having more children than you can afford to feed and educate. That's about it.
The US also has that problem.

No. We can afford to feed and educate our children. It's just that, instead, we choose, consciously, deliberately, to give our nation's wealth to the already mega-rich instead of funding food and education programs.

I suppose it's the same thing happening in our neighbors to the south. But they've been doing that for centuries while we're relatively new at this. Our broader society is still quite wealthy compared to others. We haven't totally fixed that defect (non-elite having some actual economic means) ... yet ... but our mega-wealthy are diligently working at it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 361 by Pressie, posted 01-18-2019 5:57 AM Pressie has not yet responded

  
Faith
Inactive Member


Message 363 of 380 (847267)
01-20-2019 9:15 AM
Reply to: Message 361 by Pressie
01-18-2019 5:57 AM


Why so much poverty driving people to the US?
Faith writes:
What I'd like to know is the causes of the extreme poverty and lack of education that drives people to the US

Having more children than you can afford to feed and educate. That's about it.

Gosh, and here I expected a reasonable thoughtful assessment of the philosophical underpinnings of the society that discourages individual enterprise, or fails to provide employment opportunities at a living wage, and keeps people locked into a poverty mentality or something along those lines.

The US also has that problem.
It really is easy. If you can't feed them, don't breed them. Simpsons expression. Duh!

The US? Our birth rate has fallen way low recently, how could you say such a thing? If we go Third World, which may very well happen, it will be because of the destructive Leftist ideology that encourages a dependent entitlement mentality and deprives people of incentive and/or opportunity to change their lot and contribute to society.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 361 by Pressie, posted 01-18-2019 5:57 AM Pressie has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 364 by Phat, posted 01-20-2019 9:48 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 367 by Percy, posted 01-20-2019 3:01 PM Faith has responded
 Message 373 by Pressie, posted 01-22-2019 6:41 AM Faith has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 12050
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 364 of 380 (847271)
01-20-2019 9:48 AM
Reply to: Message 363 by Faith
01-20-2019 9:15 AM


Re: Why so much poverty driving people to the US?
Faith writes:

If we go Third World, which may very well happen, it will be because of the destructive Leftist ideology that encourages a dependent entitlement mentality and deprives people of incentive and/or opportunity to change their lot and contribute to society.

Of course one could argue that if we keep our birthrate low and encourage incentive and opportunity to improve, the rest of the nations will simply feel as if they have a right to share in that pie that WE baked. That's one thing that causes wars, among others. The poor you will always have with you. Its part of the Original Struggle. Only in utopia can everyone get fed and become happy. The free enterprise system would never work globally. There always has to be the poor. And that is why we will never make it without Gods help.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 363 by Faith, posted 01-20-2019 9:15 AM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 366 by ringo, posted 01-20-2019 1:44 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 12050
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


(1)
Message 365 of 380 (847272)
01-20-2019 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 361 by Pressie
01-18-2019 5:57 AM


Globalism vs Nationalism
It really is easy. If you can't feed them, don't breed them.
Try telling that to the world. They would resent mandatory birth control. They would resent a lot of things. Think of the seeds of global conflict, for that is one way to prevent it---to see it coming and to act on it. Trump's wall is symbolic and at best a temporary bandaid for a much bigger problem.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 361 by Pressie, posted 01-18-2019 5:57 AM Pressie has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 16149
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 366 of 380 (847289)
01-20-2019 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 364 by Phat
01-20-2019 9:48 AM


Re: Why so much poverty driving people to the US?
Phat writes:

Of course one could argue that if we keep our birthrate low and encourage incentive and opportunity to improve...


It's because our birthrate is low that we need immigration.

Phat writes:

...the rest of the nations will simply feel as if they have a right to share in that pie that WE baked.


"We" didn't bake the pie. Our grandparents did - and they were immigrants.

Phat writes:

The poor you will always have with you. Its part of the Original Struggle.


As I've told you before, you're misinterpreting that scripture. There will always be poor people because somebody is always losing his job at Safeway - but he eventually finds another job and somebody else becomes poor.

And of course, there never was any "Original Stuggle" except in the minds of people who espouse a puny god.


And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 364 by Phat, posted 01-20-2019 9:48 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 18263
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 367 of 380 (847293)
01-20-2019 3:01 PM
Reply to: Message 363 by Faith
01-20-2019 9:15 AM


Re: Why so much poverty driving people to the US?
Faith writes:

Our birth rate has fallen way low recently...

Not to change the topic, but given Trump's wall-based shutdown I just wanted to interject that this is why we need to increase immigration.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 363 by Faith, posted 01-20-2019 9:15 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 368 by Phat, posted 01-20-2019 4:22 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 370 by Faith, posted 01-20-2019 7:24 PM Percy has responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 12050
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 368 of 380 (847297)
01-20-2019 4:22 PM
Reply to: Message 367 by Percy
01-20-2019 3:01 PM


Im Gonna Need My Social Security
both ringo and Percy writes:

Not to change the topic, but given Trump's wall-based shutdown I just wanted to interject that this is why we need to increase immigration.

And don't forget Faith...both you and I need our social security. We need workers to pay into that system.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 367 by Percy, posted 01-20-2019 3:01 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 369 by Faith, posted 01-20-2019 7:22 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Faith
Inactive Member


Message 369 of 380 (847304)
01-20-2019 7:22 PM
Reply to: Message 368 by Phat
01-20-2019 4:22 PM


Re: Im Gonna Need My Social Security
And don't forget Faith...both you and I need our social security. We need workers to pay into that system.

How about LEGAL workers, what's wrong with that?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 368 by Phat, posted 01-20-2019 4:22 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Faith
Inactive Member


Message 370 of 380 (847305)
01-20-2019 7:24 PM
Reply to: Message 367 by Percy
01-20-2019 3:01 PM


Re: Why so much poverty driving people to the US?
Not to change the topic, but given Trump's wall-based shutdown I just wanted to interject that this is why we need to increase immigration.

Nobody is objecting to LEGAL immigration where we get to weed out the criminals and choose good workers, and require them to learn English and the basics of American institutions. The requirements for legal entry into the country used to include having a clear means of support also. Now they come in needing free stuff from us, stuff that rightfully belongs to American citizens not foreigners.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 367 by Percy, posted 01-20-2019 3:01 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 371 by JonF, posted 01-21-2019 9:20 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 372 by Percy, posted 01-21-2019 1:02 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 376 by dwise1, posted 01-23-2019 12:19 PM Faith has responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 4470
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 371 of 380 (847318)
01-21-2019 9:20 AM
Reply to: Message 370 by Faith
01-20-2019 7:24 PM


Re: Why so much poverty driving people to the US?
There are quite a few right wingers who are against legal immigration. Stephen Miller, a top White House aide, is probably the most influential. But plenty of white supremacists agree.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 370 by Faith, posted 01-20-2019 7:24 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 18263
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.1


(1)
Message 372 of 380 (847348)
01-21-2019 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 370 by Faith
01-20-2019 7:24 PM


Re: Why so much poverty driving people to the US?
Faith writes:

Phat writes:

And don't forget Faith...both you and I need our social security. We need workers to pay into that system.

How about LEGAL workers, what's wrong with that?

Faith writes:

Percy writes:

Not to change the topic, but given Trump's wall-based shutdown I just wanted to interject that this is why we need to increase immigration.

Nobody is objecting to LEGAL immigration...

Yes, Faith, legal immigration - that's obviously what is meant. Clearly you're not reading the longer replies to you (is more than one line too long?) or your memory is seriously failing you. Over and over again people, including me, have pointed out to you that they're not in favor of illegal immigration, but that they are strongly against cruel and antagonistic treatment of illegal immigrants and asylum seekers. Please stop interpreting opposition to cruelty as advocacy for illegal immigration.

When you replied that no one is objecting to legal immigration in reply to my call for increased immigration, does that mean you have no objections to increasing immigration limits, say from its current 1.18 million to around 1.5 million?

...where we get to weed out the criminals and choose good workers,...

Any random group of people will be a bell shaped curve ranging from poor workers to excellent. Just as most companies hiring processes are unable to detect a priori good workers from bad unless some previous employer provides a negative recommendation, the immigration service can do no better.

...and require them to learn English and the basics of American institutions.

I think you're confusing citizenship with immigration. And even citizenship doesn't require a knowledge of English if you're over 50.

The requirements for legal entry into the country used to include having a clear means of support also.

Being able and willing to work is a clear means of support. Interesting that if you were a foreigner you wouldn't qualify under your own rules.

Now they come in needing free stuff from us, stuff that rightfully belongs to American citizens not foreigners.

Now you're just making stuff up again. Immigrants, including illegal immigrants, are a significant net contributor to our GDP.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 370 by Faith, posted 01-20-2019 7:24 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1998
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 373 of 380 (847388)
01-22-2019 6:41 AM
Reply to: Message 363 by Faith
01-20-2019 9:15 AM


Re: Why so much poverty driving people to the US?
Actually, the US teen birth rate was 53 births per 1,000 women aged 15–19 in 2002, the highest in the developed world. Those teen mothers grew older and now their children are having children now. Maybe that's part of your problem?

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 363 by Faith, posted 01-20-2019 9:15 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 374 by Faith, posted 01-22-2019 10:56 AM Pressie has not yet responded

    
Faith
Inactive Member


Message 374 of 380 (847401)
01-22-2019 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 373 by Pressie
01-22-2019 6:41 AM


Re: Why so much poverty driving people to the US?
We certainly have problems and single parenting is certainly a cause of economic problems for us which may eventually contribute to bringing us down to Third World status, but I was asking about the entrenched poverty in the nations of Central and South America that drive people to the US. Their form of government or something in the cultural mindset is what I am thinking of.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 373 by Pressie, posted 01-22-2019 6:41 AM Pressie has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 375 by Theodoric, posted 01-23-2019 11:45 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5931
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 4.0


(1)
Message 375 of 380 (847472)
01-23-2019 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 374 by Faith
01-22-2019 10:56 AM


Re: Why so much poverty driving people to the US?
and single parenting is certainly a cause of economic problems

Evidence please.
Their form of government or something in the cultural mindset is what I am thinking of.

You have no evidence for this either I assume. It is just random shit flowing out of your brain. You may want to actually study the history of these countries. Focus on the US intervention and US corporate policies. If you were not so blind to facts and evidence you would see that the good ole USA bears much responsibility for the poverty and chaos in thos nations.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 374 by Faith, posted 01-22-2019 10:56 AM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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