|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total) |
| |
ChatGPT | |
Total: 916,889 Year: 4,146/9,624 Month: 1,017/974 Week: 344/286 Day: 65/40 Hour: 1/5 |
Thread ▼ Details |
|
|
Author | Topic: Oh No, The New Awesome Primary Thread | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
|
Faith writes: And you are entitled to that opinion, but you are NOT entitled to justify violating the immigration laws because YOU think they are immoral, against the people who disagree with you, or force your will on those who disagree with you, which is what the Left keeps doing, and justifies by morally condemning those who disagree just because they disagree. Again, learn to read Faith. What Trump is being called on was his assertion that illegal aliens crossing the Mexican border constitute a risk to the US and cause violent crime. That is simply false on every single level. First, about half of the illegal aliens in the US are not Hispanic. Second, there is absolutely no evidence that illegal aliens commit violent crimes at a rate higher than citizens. Trump simply lies and his supporters are simply too ignorant to call his lies or are as racist as his position.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9199 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
but you are NOT entitled to justify violating the immigration laws because YOU think they are immoral, against the people who disagree with you, or force your will on those who disagree with you, which is what the Left keeps doing, and justifies by morally condemning those who disagree just because they disagree. And what do you think about the same-sex marriage?Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
|
Hi Faith, I'm just jumping in here for a quick point ...
And you are entitled to that opinion, but you are NOT entitled to justify violating the immigration laws because YOU think they are immoral, against the people who disagree with you, or force your will on those who disagree with you, which is what the Left keeps doing, and justifies by morally condemning those who disagree just because they disagree. Unjust laws only get changed when enough people protest them. Take the massive US incarceration rate that is an embarrassment for a nation that claims to be a light for freedom, justice and equality. Most of the young black inmates are there for two reasons: (1) structural racism (and the zombie paradigm of superpredators), and (2) for possession of marijuana and the "three-strike" legislation. We can argue about the merits of marijuana, but it is less dangerous than alcohol and it does have some valid medicinal uses. It should not be used as an excuse to lock people up when prescription drugs ARE addictive and cause other problems. Here's the question: if use of marijuana is legalized across the nation as it currently is in Colorado, what should be done with all those prisoners whose only crimes are marijuana possession 3 times? Should they continue to be imprisoned (at taxpayer expense)? Should they be released? Should they be released with a "sorry we made a mistake"? or should they be released with a full pardon (cleaned record) and even reparations for imprisonment? Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : subtby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
What Trump is being called on was his assertion that illegal aliens crossing the Mexican border constitute a risk to the US and cause violent crime. It would be nice to have some statistics about this, but I certainly don't trust your claim over Trump's.
That is simply false on every single level. First, about half of the illegal aliens in the US are not Hispanic. 1) But the ones coming over the southern border are, which is what he was addressing. 2) Funny, I haven't seen anybody addressing his facts, just attacking him for his opinion on moral grounds, PC style. If you want to address the facts, do so, but if he has another set of facts, it would be right and Christian of you to respect his right to his point of view instead of attacking him as a person.
Second, there is absolutely no evidence that illegal aliens commit violent crimes at a rate higher than citizens. 1) And you are in possession of that evidence and it is trustworthy? 2) Illegal aliens are not citizens and not to be compared to citizens. 3) A major aim of immigration laws is to keep out criminals, period, the rate of their criminality is irrelevant.
Trump simply lies and his supporters are simply too ignorant to call his lies or are as racist as his position. And there we have it, full-blown Political Correctness which always resorts to calling someone you disagree with a racist or a liar. Oh and of course Trump is Svengali and his supporters are "ignorant." Gosh what a fine moral and intellectual standard you set for our public political discourse. THAT's the moral evil in this discussion. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member
|
Funny, I haven't seen anybody addressing his facts Jar did address the facts when he cited crime statistics. You simply dismissed his address out of hand and indicated that nothing would ever convince you otherwise. So what's the point of anyone even presenting facts to you? How is anyone going to discuss anything with you if that is going to be the result? Do you suppose that this is how all Trump supporters behave? Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Sorry if I missed it and perhaps it's worth repeating, or maybe not. I'm more concerned with the disgusting PC element of the discussion.
But one person's set of statistics is never the last word anyway so why are you pretending it is? Perhaps you missed this in that post:
Faith writes: 2) Funny, I haven't seen anybody addressing his facts, just attacking him for his opinion on moral grounds, PC style. If you want to address the facts, do so, but if he has another set of facts, it would be right and Christian of you to respect his right to his point of view instead of attacking him as a person. In other words he probably has a different source of statistics and what makes yours righter? ABE: If you want to argue facts and totally leave out the personal attacks do so. Nobody is doing that, the whole tenor of the argument against Trump is personal and moral and not about facts at all. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Are you arguing that our immigration laws are immoral? I don't want to get off onto other legal issues.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
And what do you think about the same-sex marriage? I think it's a brand-new PC style "right" that has been forced down the throats of the majority of citizens who oppose it, against millennia of contrary opinion by the majority of cultures worldwide, and has become law without the consent of the people, with power to criminalize all those who disagree. Very PC. Perfect case of totalitarian tyranny. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9199 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2
|
Faith's responses and arguments have solidified a few I have had for a while. Many of the people on the religious right do not follow the people they do because they embody or articulate the religious view they hold. The support for Donald Trump completely destroys this idea. They follow the people they do because they feel it gives them some sort of moral cover for the hate they have. Donald Trump's followers expose the hypocrisy and hate of the religious right movement. They can make all the high moral claims they want , but the tortured reasoning they use just continues to expose them for haters and hypocrites.
Faith is a prime example. Edited by Theodoric, : TypoFacts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9199 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
How does your head not explode?
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
dronestar Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: Member Rating: 6.4 |
Drone writes: is not constructive against a willfully marble-headed individual. Theo writes: Once the personal attacks start I stop reading.Good day, Sir. Wow. 1. "Marble-headed" is a pretty mild ad-hominem attack. For some, it's nearly a term of endearment. Heck, compared to the crap I sometimes get on this forum, I might even consider being called "marble-headed" a compliment. 2. I didn't actually, specifically, call YOU "marble-headed." (I suspect guilty conscience is at work here.) I made two statements:
Drone writes: Indignation alone, withOUT facts/evidence, is not constructive against a willfully marble-headed individual. As a matter of fact, Indignation, even WITH facts/evidence, is not constructive against a willfully marble-headed individual. 3. And lastly, . . . Really Theo? I'm showing evidence of MASS-MURDER, a MILLION innocent Iraqi civilian deaths, gross human right violations, sexual violence precipitated and supported by Hillary's actions. Amazingly, all these horrific crimes don't upset you the least, as you are more than happy to spend your time and money supporting Hillary. But what sets off your suddenly ultra-sensitive indignation is the term: "marble-headed." Really? 4. Theo writes:
Theo writes: Will you take your ball and go home? This is exactly how forum participants will view your post. Instead of debating, you feigned an upset tummy, then ran away. I'm disappointed. Not a typical Theo post.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9199 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
I didn't actually, specifically, call YOU "marble-headed." (I suspect guilty conscience is at work here.)
And the personal attacks continue, yet you wonder why you are not worth engaging.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
dronestar Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: Member Rating: 6.4 |
RAZD writes: posting tips If you type Message 76 it will link to Message 76 of this thread.Message 76 If you type Message 76 it will link to Message 76 of the "Presidential Candidates" thread ...Message 76 ... which can also be linked by Presidential Candidates Presidential Candidates Thanks RAZD. I knew about the message codes, but was too lazy to look them up. I did not know about the thread code. That would have been useful. Cool, thanks for learn'n me.
RAZD writes: I am not interested in a pissing match to see who can dump on Hillary the most. That's not why we started our debate. You wrote that you would be HAPPY to have Hillary win the primary:
RAZD writes: Personally I would be happy with any one of the three {democratic candidates] That's a far difference to what you are currently writing.
RAZD writes: So you can call Message 76 a win if you like.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
|
Faith writes:
That copout doesn't work in a democracy. In a democracy, YOU are the government, so Jesus was most definitely preaching to the government. You have a responsibility to cast your vote in a Christ-like manner.
Jesus didn't preach to governments. Applying his teachings to governments is totally out of line.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member |
Sorry if I missed it and perhaps it's worth repeating, or maybe not. I'm more concerned with the disgusting PC element of the discussion. Yes, but only where "PC" means something like introducing truth in the face of a xenophobic rant that flies in the face of the actual facts. You've indicated that as long as a single immigrant commits a crime, the its okay to lambast all of them. There is nothing PC about calling you on that. It turns out that it is also illegal not to discriminate against gays. Do I see you defending that state of affairs on pure legal grounds? Similarly, being illegal is not the last word on the issue of immigrants either.
But one person's set of statistics is never the last word anyway so why are you pretending it is? I did not claim that it was. I am disputing your claim that no one is addressing your claims with facts. Your response was not that you simply rejected jars attempt to supply facts, but that you rejected all future attempts to provide statistics. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024