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Author Topic:   Arizona: Showing America how to avoid thinking since 1912
Taq
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Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 78 of 397 (720805)
02-27-2014 5:28 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by New Cat's Eye
02-27-2014 5:26 PM


Re: Such a groundswell of opinion against freedom of religion
That's what I'm saying. That's why these 1950's race comparisons are stupid.
If anti-gay discrimination is a thing of the past, how is it that an elected state legislature would have the votes to pass a pro-discrimination bill?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-27-2014 5:26 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-27-2014 5:35 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 80 of 397 (720807)
02-27-2014 5:29 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by Faith
02-27-2014 5:28 PM


Re: Let's limit this discussion to the specifics
I am not to do anything that appears to condone or promote their sexual practices and specifically gay marriage, both of which are against the Law of God.
Please cite the verse where it says that taking pictures of homosexuals or baking them a cake is promoting homosexuality.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Faith, posted 02-27-2014 5:28 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by Faith, posted 02-27-2014 5:31 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(2)
Message 85 of 397 (720814)
02-27-2014 5:36 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Faith
02-27-2014 5:31 PM


Re: Let's limit this discussion to the specifics
That ought to be intuitively obvious IN THE CONTEXT OF GAY MARRIAGE, but if it's not for you it's none of your business if it is for others who do regard it as a violation of conscience. Again, freedom of conscience is for those whose opinions differ with our own.
Freedom of conscience does not allow you to discriminate as part of your business. You can't deny inter-racial couples a bed a hotel just because you think inter-racial marriages are wrong.
You are free to differ, but you aren't free to discriminate.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Faith, posted 02-27-2014 5:31 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by Faith, posted 02-27-2014 5:39 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 86 of 397 (720815)
02-27-2014 5:38 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by New Cat's Eye
02-27-2014 5:35 PM


Re: Such a groundswell of opinion against freedom of religion
They're not reading the bills and just voted for them because their party proposed it.
That they have to renege to save face implies that most of their voters are not for the bill.
Baloney. I bet nearly every one of them would be re-elected if they kept supporting the bill. These bills are coming forward in multiple states (including my own) because there is wide spread public support for discrimination against gays.

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 Message 83 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-27-2014 5:35 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by Faith, posted 02-27-2014 5:41 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(2)
Message 90 of 397 (720820)
02-27-2014 5:42 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by Faith
02-27-2014 5:39 PM


Re: Let's limit this discussion to the specifics
Again, the comparison of race with homosexuality is an absurd twisting of reality simply for the purpose of promoting bigotry against Christianity.
Bigotry against christianity? Not even. There are christians who support gay rights and are against bills like the one that nearly passed in Arizona.
This is a stand against people who are bigotted towards gays, and it is no different than discrimination against race.

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 Message 87 by Faith, posted 02-27-2014 5:39 PM Faith has not replied

  
Taq
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Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(2)
Message 91 of 397 (720821)
02-27-2014 5:43 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by Faith
02-27-2014 5:41 PM


Re: Such a groundswell of opinion against freedom of religion
You are against "discrimination" against "sexual preferences," right? Apparently there are NO "sexual preferences" you would want to "discriminate" against? None whatever?
Not between consenting adults, no.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by Faith, posted 02-27-2014 5:41 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by Faith, posted 02-27-2014 5:48 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(6)
Message 93 of 397 (720824)
02-27-2014 5:52 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by Faith
02-27-2014 5:48 PM


Re: Such a groundswell of opinion against freedom of religion
That's a good answer. Glad you aren't in favor of NAMBLA.
I've never understood why people think there is a link between pedophilia and homosexuality. One is not the other. If you support the right of a man and a women to marry, should I also assume that you support a 40 year old man marrying a 10 year old girl?
To be fair, you have not equated the two, but I have seen a lot of people claim that if you are for gay rights then you must also be for pedophile rights. Never understood that one.

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 Message 92 by Faith, posted 02-27-2014 5:48 PM Faith has not replied

  
Taq
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Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 98 of 397 (720832)
02-27-2014 6:50 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by Faith
02-27-2014 5:57 PM


Re: Let's limit this discussion to the specifics
However, although you don't get it , again, let's leave it to the people who DO have a conscience against baking a wedding cake for a homosexual couple because to them it's like condoning gay marriage which they believe violates the Law of God.
If you can not, in good conscience, bake cakes for the public in accordance with laws, THEN DON'T BE IN THE CAKE BUSINESS. It is a really simple concept.
Who are you or the state to dictate to a person's conscience?
No one is dictating what a person's conscience should be. The state is not forcing you to be in the cake business or wedding photography business, as two examples. If you operate those businesses, you are doing so of your own free will, and in doing so you take on the rules that the state sets out for those businesses.
But again, if you, as a good citizen of the USSA, want to force it on Christians, I can only hope Christians will have the backbone to choose God over all these forces of bigotry against them no matter what the consequences.
The bigots are the ones who want businesses to treat everyone equally, and not discriminate? Really?
Were the bigots the ones who desegregated the South against the conscience of white Southerners?

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 Message 95 by Faith, posted 02-27-2014 5:57 PM Faith has not replied

  
Taq
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Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 125 of 397 (720907)
02-28-2014 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by Faith
02-28-2014 1:41 AM


Interesting of course that religious liberty to this writer is only about PRIVATE practices, but if religious liberty is also about PUBLIC practices, which it always was in America until rather recently, then religious liberty may very well be at risk.
Since when does religious liberty mean that you can force others to abide by your religious beliefs?
If religious liberty includes the right to refuse service to anyone . . .
It doesn't. It never has. If you are part of the Aryan Nation Church (which is a real church) you can not deny people access to your hotel because of your race, even though it goes against your religious beliefs to treat people of color equally.

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 Message 112 by Faith, posted 02-28-2014 1:41 AM Faith has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(3)
Message 180 of 397 (721072)
03-03-2014 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 151 by Faith
03-02-2014 5:11 PM


Re: something to think about
When a nation officially repudiates God and His laws, . . .
This nation has done so from the very beginning. According to the Constitution, you are free to break the following biblical laws:
1. Work on the Sabbath.
2. Eat shellfish
3. Wear clothes of mixed fibers
4. Worship idols
5. Take the Lord's name in vain
6. Worship other gods besides the Abrahamic one
7. Not believe in gods
I could list many, many more. In the end, we have always had a government that allows people to make moral decisions for themselves and not have it lorded over them by members of a religion they don't belong to.
Can you tell us why people in a free country should be forced to live by the edicts of a religion they don't belong to?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by Faith, posted 03-02-2014 5:11 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 189 by Faith, posted 03-03-2014 2:49 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(3)
Message 181 of 397 (721073)
03-03-2014 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 169 by Faith
03-03-2014 6:07 AM


Re: something to think about
I'm talking about the Moral Law, which is illustrated by many cases in the Torah, which is based on the Ten Commandments, all laws that are derived from those commandments.
The Ten Commandments say that you shall not worship idols. Our US Constitution says that you can worship idols if you please.
The Ten Commandments say that you shall not take the Lord's name in vain. Our US Constitution says that you have freedom of speech, which includes blasphemy.
The Ten Commandments say that you shall not worship any other gods other than the Abrahamic God. The US Consititution says that you can worship whatever god or gods you want.
Are you starting to see a disconnect here?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by Faith, posted 03-03-2014 6:07 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 190 by Faith, posted 03-03-2014 2:51 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 197 of 397 (721099)
03-03-2014 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 189 by Faith
03-03-2014 2:49 PM


Re: something to think about
It would be nice if you'd read my posts about these things.
It would be nice if you would understand that the US is not a theocracy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by Faith, posted 03-03-2014 2:49 PM Faith has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(2)
Message 198 of 397 (721100)
03-03-2014 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 190 by Faith
03-03-2014 2:51 PM


Re: something to think about
Those things were not the original intent of the Constitution, as many of our early court cases should inform you. But in general I agree that the Constitutional generation were traitors to the Christian heritage of this country.
I would still like you to explain why people in a free country should have to follow the edicts of a religion that they don't belong to.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by Faith, posted 03-03-2014 2:51 PM Faith has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 222 of 397 (721163)
03-04-2014 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 213 by Faith
03-04-2014 12:25 AM


Re: Something more to think about
And about SDA, many Adventists appear to believe truly in Christ and are probably saved, but the church itself is a cult because it is founded on the aberrant teachings of Ellen White who is regarded as a prophet.
quote:
Adventists were influential in the redevelopment of creationism in the 20th Century. Seventh-day Adventist geologist George McCready Price was responsible for reviving flood geology in the early 20th century. He was quoted heavily by William Jennings Bryan in the Scopes Monkey Trial. His ideas were later borrowed by Henry Morris and John Whitcomb for their landmark 1961 creationist text The Genesis Flood.[117] The Morris and Whitcomb position is distinct from Seventh-day Adventism because they postulate both a young earth and a young universe.[118]
About the time that The Genesis Flood was having a large impact in the evangelical world, a number of progressive Adventist scholars educated in secular universities began promoting Theistic Evolution.[119][120] Some Progressive Adventists no longer hold the literal view of Genesis 1.[121]
In 2009, the Seventh-day Adventist Church held an international creation emphasis day as part of a "worldwide denominational celebration of the biblical account of creation."[122] The event was part of a church initiative to underscore its commitment to a literal creation model.[122] In 2010, the World Seventh-day Adventist Church's highest ecclesiastical body, the World General Conference Session, officially reaffirmed the Church's position in support of a literal six-day creation week.[123]
Seventh-day Adventist theology - Wikipedia
One of the "abberant" teachings of Ellen White is that Genesis be taken literally, and at her urging the modern creationist movement was born.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by Faith, posted 03-04-2014 12:25 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by Faith, posted 03-04-2014 11:46 AM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(7)
Message 228 of 397 (721238)
03-05-2014 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 225 by PaulK
03-04-2014 1:46 PM


Re: There are Christians who disagree with Faith
Sincerely Held Religious Belief
By Baptist Minister Rev. Paul Brandeis Raushenbush
It really shows the position for what it is. People actually feel discriminated against if they aren't allowed to punish people for not following their religious beliefs.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 225 by PaulK, posted 03-04-2014 1:46 PM PaulK has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 229 by NoNukes, posted 03-05-2014 1:58 PM Taq has not replied
 Message 233 by Omnivorous, posted 03-05-2014 9:36 PM Taq has replied

  
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