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Author Topic:   Is the Bible the inerrant word of God? Or is it the words of men?
Golffly
Member (Idle past 3111 days)
Posts: 287
Joined: 12-19-2014


Message 1959 of 2241 (748524)
01-26-2015 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1943 by Faith
01-26-2015 1:47 PM


Re: so let's add yet abother different vesion of the story
faith writes:
The Bible does not contradict itself because it is the Word of God. That is where you start. If you don't start there you go off into deep darkness, which is where you and jar and others are going to end up.
I care as much about your threat, as you do about a Hindu threat of hell.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1943 by Faith, posted 01-26-2015 1:47 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1960 by Faith, posted 01-26-2015 2:55 PM Golffly has replied

  
Golffly
Member (Idle past 3111 days)
Posts: 287
Joined: 12-19-2014


Message 1961 of 2241 (748531)
01-26-2015 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 1960 by Faith
01-26-2015 2:55 PM


Re: so let's add yet abother different vesion of the story
faith writes:
No, but you'll remember it when the time comes.
I worry about what you say as much as you worry about what Mormons say about which level of heaven you reach. You're going to be at a low level.
I suspect you don't worry too much about that, and nor should you.
Well that's what I do as well, same as you. Not worry about what deluded, religious, non-thinkers say.
Instead of these threats why don't you try and figure out why you're always wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1960 by Faith, posted 01-26-2015 2:55 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1964 by Faith, posted 01-26-2015 3:44 PM Golffly has replied

  
Golffly
Member (Idle past 3111 days)
Posts: 287
Joined: 12-19-2014


Message 1962 of 2241 (748533)
01-26-2015 3:36 PM


Contradictions
What did Jesus ride into Jerusalem on.
And ass and a colt
Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass. And the disciples went, and did as Jesus commanded them And brought the ass, and the colt, and put on them their clothes, and they set him thereon. Matthew 21:5-7
No just a colt
And they brought the colt to Jesus, and cast their garments on him; and he sat upon him. Mark 11:7

Replies to this message:
 Message 1963 by Golffly, posted 01-26-2015 3:40 PM Golffly has replied
 Message 1969 by jar, posted 01-26-2015 5:01 PM Golffly has replied

  
Golffly
Member (Idle past 3111 days)
Posts: 287
Joined: 12-19-2014


Message 1963 of 2241 (748535)
01-26-2015 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 1962 by Golffly
01-26-2015 3:36 PM


Re: Contradictions
I wonder what the soldiers gave him to drink
Vinegar and gall
They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall. -- Matthew 27:34
No it was wine and myrrh
They gave him to drink wine mingled with myrrh. -- Mark 15:23

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1962 by Golffly, posted 01-26-2015 3:36 PM Golffly has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1965 by Golffly, posted 01-26-2015 3:44 PM Golffly has not replied

  
Golffly
Member (Idle past 3111 days)
Posts: 287
Joined: 12-19-2014


Message 1965 of 2241 (748537)
01-26-2015 3:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1963 by Golffly
01-26-2015 3:40 PM


Re: Contradictions
Who buried Jesus
Joseph of Arimathaea
Joseph of Arimathaea ... took him down, and wrapped him in the linen, and laid him in a sepulchre. Mark 15:43-46
No the Jews and rulers did
For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him. And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain. And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre.Acts 13:27-29

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1963 by Golffly, posted 01-26-2015 3:40 PM Golffly has not replied

  
Golffly
Member (Idle past 3111 days)
Posts: 287
Joined: 12-19-2014


Message 1966 of 2241 (748540)
01-26-2015 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 1964 by Faith
01-26-2015 3:44 PM


Re: so let's add yet abother different vesion of the story
But I KNOW why I'm "wrong." It's because you need me to be wrong so you trot out everything you can come up with to create the illusion.
You're wrong because you read religious sites believing the same thing you do and wall out independent thought.
Could Jesus be touched before ascension?
No:
John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father.
Well, ya
Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me.

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 Message 1964 by Faith, posted 01-26-2015 3:44 PM Faith has not replied

  
Golffly
Member (Idle past 3111 days)
Posts: 287
Joined: 12-19-2014


Message 1967 of 2241 (748541)
01-26-2015 4:31 PM
Reply to: Message 1951 by Faith
01-26-2015 2:02 PM


Re: so let's add yet abother different vesion of the story
The Bible is not to be approached "normally," it's not a normal production.
You said a mouth full there.
God doesn't get angry:
God will not threaten like man, nor be inflamed to anger. Judith 8:15
If he does it's just a moment
For his anger endureth but a moment. Psalm 30:5
Sometimes it's a forty year moment
And the Lord's anger was kindled against Israel, and he made them wander in the wilderness for forty years. Numbers 32:13
Then sometimes, it's well, forever,
Ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn for ever. Jeremiah 17:4

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 Message 1951 by Faith, posted 01-26-2015 2:02 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Golffly
Member (Idle past 3111 days)
Posts: 287
Joined: 12-19-2014


Message 1968 of 2241 (748543)
01-26-2015 4:45 PM
Reply to: Message 1967 by Golffly
01-26-2015 4:31 PM


Re: so let's add yet abother different vesion of the story
What about the unfortunate handicapped people
Ex.4:11 Who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?
Okay god made them that way but surely he's fair about the handicap he inflicted upon them.
Lev.21:17-23 Whosoever ... hath any blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God. For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous, Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded, Or crookback, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken; No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the LORD made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God. ... Only he shall not go in unto the vail, nor come nigh unto the altar, because he hath a blemish; that he profane not my sanctuaries.
Not so much actually.

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Golffly
Member (Idle past 3111 days)
Posts: 287
Joined: 12-19-2014


Message 1970 of 2241 (748547)
01-26-2015 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 1969 by jar
01-26-2015 5:01 PM


Re: Not just contrafictions but examples of fake prophecy fulfillment
Jar writes:
Now those two examples are examples of creating a false prophetic fulfillment; of marketing; of a con. It is people saying "Hey there is a passage that says the king will come in on an ass so let's get an ass and Jesus can ride into Jerusalem on it."
Others pointed out "But wait, there will be lots of folk riding into Jerusalem on asses. It happens every day."
The reply, "Don't worry about that, we'll advertise that he did it."
In my view, that's exactly what it is.
It's a made prophecy from reading OT and making Jesus fit the OT by the writer.
Then those that should know better, reading it and carefully not mentioning obvious problems of 1) anybody can be riding an ass or2) more specifically, writing in that the guy rides in on an ass to make it fit.
It's disingenuous. It started early in the game and continues today.

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 Message 1969 by jar, posted 01-26-2015 5:01 PM jar has not replied

  
Golffly
Member (Idle past 3111 days)
Posts: 287
Joined: 12-19-2014


Message 1974 of 2241 (748561)
01-26-2015 8:47 PM
Reply to: Message 1972 by Faith
01-26-2015 7:46 PM


You fragment the Bible and read it out of context. It is to be read as a whole, every part in the light of every other part. It is not two contradicted by seven, it is two elaborated by seven.
Sure there's lots, lots, lots more. When two equals seven, I have no doubt you can resolve anything in your head. How else could it be inerrant. (The unknown author Matthew, who helps fix the unknown author Mark's screwed up geography, has the bible record in contradictions)
You know the Quran has far, far fewer contradictions. And Allah, well he hardly kills anybody. Yahweh has him beat by a long shot.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1972 by Faith, posted 01-26-2015 7:46 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1997 by NoNukes, posted 01-27-2015 9:02 AM Golffly has replied

  
Golffly
Member (Idle past 3111 days)
Posts: 287
Joined: 12-19-2014


Message 1989 of 2241 (748586)
01-27-2015 7:59 AM
Reply to: Message 1977 by Faith
01-27-2015 3:13 AM


Re: Ask Yourself
faith writes:
But as I said the study it would take is really more than I can handle, and as this discussion shows, even knowing how to resolve the discrepancies -- and the ones given here were really not discrepancies anyway, just willful misreadings -- doesn't convince those who are committed to finding fault with the Bible, which makes the effort doubly futile. Whether showing that there are resolutions could really help someone in this environment I don't know.
This is nit picking, no question. It's not the broad picture. But you are asserting the bible is inerrant and it's own words show otherwise. When two and seven are the same or seven is elaborated from two. When completely opposite things standing/ falling down, voice/ no voice, never angry/ eternally angry, when they no longer mean what they clearly say..then resolution of errors is clearly just making up stuff because you don't want errors.
As I mentioned, the Quran is not riddled with the same number of contradictions.
Allah is not a murderous tyrant as Yahweh is often depicted in the bible.
So you can't show a uniqueness of your religion means anything. You can't show your god exists. The bible characters many times can not be proven to exist. The writers of the books are not always what we have been led to believe.
You are in a nearly impossible position logically .
When you say you wish you could defend it better, all you mean is you wish you could make up excuses as well as some apologists do. But they don't do any better than you. You think they do but you also think making up excuses here is a solution. It's not a solution, it is the problem.

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 Message 1977 by Faith, posted 01-27-2015 3:13 AM Faith has not replied

  
Golffly
Member (Idle past 3111 days)
Posts: 287
Joined: 12-19-2014


Message 1993 of 2241 (748590)
01-27-2015 8:13 AM
Reply to: Message 1988 by Percy
01-27-2015 7:52 AM


Re: King Josiah's restoration of Israel to proper worship of their God
percy writes:
Jar will have to confirm, it's been a while since I've looked into textual analysis, but I believe the beginning chapters of Genesis are solely or mostly just two authors, but that as you get further into Genesis that other voices also emerge.
I mean at least two writers in Genesis. I also would be interested in what Jar says though.

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Replies to this message:
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Golffly
Member (Idle past 3111 days)
Posts: 287
Joined: 12-19-2014


Message 1999 of 2241 (748601)
01-27-2015 10:03 AM
Reply to: Message 1997 by NoNukes
01-27-2015 9:02 AM


nonukes writes:
On the other hand, I've always been bothered by the description of Paul's men sometimes hearing and other times not hearing Jesus voice. In my view, someone erred, but the error is of no consequence.
There are many opposite statements in the bible. Some are no consequence like what you mention here. But if the point is errancy, then it's significant.
Others are certainly important to a message purportedly given by the bible.
Judge or don't judge
Never angry/ eternally angry
Love god/Fear god/ there is no fear in love.
Righteous men/ never been a righteous man.
These are significant to the bible point, from a Christian perspective.
If Christians portray the bible one way, but statements in the bible can also say the opposite and display the opposite.. I think this is more important than 2=7 or voice/no voice.
But if obvious opposite contradictions can never be accepted, then the deeply religious are not really reading the bible but rather re-writing it in their head.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1997 by NoNukes, posted 01-27-2015 9:02 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2000 by jar, posted 01-27-2015 10:33 AM Golffly has replied
 Message 2003 by NoNukes, posted 01-27-2015 11:48 AM Golffly has replied

  
Golffly
Member (Idle past 3111 days)
Posts: 287
Joined: 12-19-2014


Message 2006 of 2241 (748614)
01-27-2015 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 2000 by jar
01-27-2015 10:33 AM


Re: audience
Jar writes:
But this again is a problem of christian education and not a problem with the Bible stories themselves.
I think it's problematic for both. The issue with cult Christian we'd agree on, I'd say.
But the bible is pretty poor for credibility.
Science can be said to disprove Genesis and Noah.
Things like exodus and conquest of Canaan are... suspect to didn't happen.
I think some of it is so absurd it can be outright dismissed.
Jesus is subject to some pretty weak outside the bible evidence and some pretty weak with the bible evidence.
That leaves kind of a puzzle in deciding what is myth and what might not be.
So if the bible say isn't exactly true but say points to a truth. There is some real detective work involved in that, and not much in terms of evidence a guy can use to support the "pointing".
Just my view

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 Message 2000 by jar, posted 01-27-2015 10:33 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2008 by jar, posted 01-27-2015 1:10 PM Golffly has not replied

  
Golffly
Member (Idle past 3111 days)
Posts: 287
Joined: 12-19-2014


Message 2007 of 2241 (748620)
01-27-2015 12:46 PM
Reply to: Message 2003 by NoNukes
01-27-2015 11:48 AM


nonukes writes:
Life is complicated. No proverb or witty saying is extendable to every situation. Haste makes waste. But the early bird gets the worm.
Early to bed early to rise... Up all night, sleep all day!
It's not that simple. If say Lot is called a just and righteous man. And that high esteem is only reserved for two or three guys in the bible. What does that say about the bible and the terms " just and righteous"... they didn't have a better man on the planet than an incestuous father or the words are mostly meaninglessly used.
It's bad a lot of times by it's own doing and contradictions.

This message is a reply to:
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