Oh No, The New Awesome Primary Thread

They were all in rebellion against the morality of the Bible, God's Law.

You haven't read much of them, obviously.They were, however, sufficiently out of tune with the majority of Americans at the time to be considered traitors to their Christian principles and to the inspiration of the original colonies, and there were some who saw it that way, who considered the Constitution to be a violation of the Christian spirit of the nation, and for years there was a call to add a Christian preamble to it. There is enough affirmation of the Bible in the Founder's writings to mitigate the betrayal, somewhat anyway --- Adams was a Unitarian who accepted the teachings of Christ though not His deity, Jefferson was a Deist but liked the nonsupernatural parts of the Bible, Washington's pastor called him a Deist and he refused to take communion with the church, Franklin called for prayer in Congress despite being known as an Enlightenment man, Paine was an atheist who wrote Common Sense just to fan the flames of revolution, but in doing so showed his grasp of Biblical principles. Patrick Henry was a genuine Christian and so was Madison, and many others of that generation. But when I think of where we're headed now I agree with you to the extent that I think of those seeds of the nation's dissolution that THEY planted at the very founding, destruction by God's judgment and I have to think we deserve it. It's coming in any case. Well, really it's already here. The original spirit of the nation WAS Christian but they betrayed it and now we have the fruits of their betrayal. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

I have, as a matter of fact, but even someone who'd only read the Declaration of Independence would know enough to come to that conclusion.

So, perhaps you would agree that the Deist founders, the small number of them that had the most to do with the founding of the federal government, betrayed the Christian spirit of the nation as expressed in the colonies and in the vast majority of its population, which continued to exert its majority influence at least through WWII. Even those Deists would be appalled at what's been happening since then though. John Adams DID say that this nation was made for a moral people and is "wholly inadequate for any other." No longer a moral people we're self-destructing. You'll be cheering as the ship goes down though.

I'm not American so I don't know much about your debates.Faith, couldn't your specific Gods just base all nations according to His/Her/Their Omni-everything laws? Seems like your Gods slipped up a lot of times. Also seems like your nation, being the most powerful nation in the world, is slipping up a lot of times.Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

Well quite. It's been one long slide. We repealed the ban on Christmas, we stopped hanging Quakers, we stopped owning slaves, we raised the age of consent above the age of 10, we made it illegal for husbands to rape their wives, we ended segregation, and damn, look what's happened to the homicide rate ... If only we could turn back the clock and become a moral people again. We could start by committing more murders, which would you like to be, victim or perpetrator?

Pressie, you're from South Africa, right? There's a strong Christian history there that you seem not to know anything of. A famous Christian teacher from South Africa that most Christians everywhere know of, was Andrew Murray.I can't really make sense out of your question partly because of the plural "Gods" among other things. Maybe you could try rewording it.

Or we could try getting back to the topic Oh No, The New Awesome Primary Thread

Oh, I think he probably knows about it. Especially the bit where the Afrikaaners became God's chosen people.But now I am derailing my own thread.

In the message Message 341 that started your latest claims of "we're supposed to be a Christian, nation, blah, blah, blah......", I was doing the opposite of cheering. I have seen you write this a number of times before. It is total BS.

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it was the reason for our great success and prosperity and benevolence toward the rest of the world.

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Tell that to the Native Americans, and all the others that were slaughtered to make America great. All the generations of slave labor that helped make America great. Our country, the United States of America, did a lot of bad shit to a lot of other people that stood in our way and it was cheered on by a lot of Christians.For just a bit shy of 200 years you Christians shoved your religion down everyone's throat despite the Constitution. Finally, after WWII people started to realize that the Constitution was actually there to keep a majority from using the government that we all paid taxes to, from sponsoring or supporting a religion in tax-supported things like schools.What the founders did not expect was that Christianity would dominate the workings of our government for 200 years.What is destroying the greatness of our country is the Christians doing everything they can to impose their oppression on the rest of us. The republican fundamentalists are intentionally trying to destroy our government and impose god's laws (their psychotic version of god's laws) on the rest of us.

Well, the propagandists have done their work well and you've all drunk the Koolaid. No point in arguing any further, just wait and see what happens as a result of your great victory over Christianity.

On the contrary, our "liberal" laws are more in tune with the spirit of the commandments as opposed to your cherry-picking of the letter of the commandments. For example, fair treatment of gay people is in the spirit of loving they neighbour as thyself. You, on the other hand, obsess against gay people while ignoring the other "abominations" such as eating shellfish. Canada has always welcomed refugees from the US - loyalists, escaped slaves, war resisters. We'll be here for you when your God isn't.

I used to think that Canada would be a place to seek refuge as the ship of America goes down, especially since I have hundreds of relatives there, but your politics sounds just as bad as ours, even worse in some ways. Unfortunately there are no more uninhabited lands to move to. So I personally will depend on my God for my safety in the midst of the chaos. He saved Daniel from the lions and his friends from the furnace, so although the world is becoming a den of lions and a fiery furnace I guess we stay where we are and continue to try to persuade others to the truth of God.

Remember the joke about the lady and the flood? God told her, "I sent a policeman, I sent a boat, I sent a helicopter...."If God sends you a Democrat, seize the opportunity.

... but they've had gay marriage for about ten years longer than us, and they're doing OK.Look, couldn't you try to be happy about this? Let's say that God hates gay marriage and so forth. Maybe he does. But if that is the case, then at least we are erring on the side of love and mercy by allowing it; we are loving our neighbor. We're like the parable of the unjust steward. I have done a lot of bad stuff, but in mitigation I would plead that at least I haven't been so self-righteous as to say that we should stone the gay people to death like it says in the OT. If our society is wrong, then at least we have been wrong by loving our neighbors as ourselves; by saying I will judge not, lest I be judged.