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Author | Topic: Oh No, The New Awesome Primary Thread | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
There must be some sort of documentation to back your assertions. Correlation is not causation. Show me one article, one quote that backs what you are asserting. Is that too much to ask for?
You may be right, but I am not going to take your word or some propaganda on face value. I want evidence.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Since I've given all the best reports I've been able to find, yes, your request seems totally unreasonable, too much to ask for. What sort of quote would do it for you, what sort of article? I'm not sure what would even qualify by your weirdly strict standards.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
You have given no reports that show any original sources
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Honestly, a big collection of secondary reports ought to suffice.
Here's a story about a Jewish policeman -- retired police commissioner that is -- who worked to combat anti-Semitism in Paris, who finally got fed up with the growing Muslim violence and moved to Israel: Anti-Semitism in France: How Fast Is the Tide Rising? | Vanity Fair abe: I had only read part of it when I posted the above, not realizing there was more to read so I read more but haven't reached the end yet. It's a really interesting account of this man's experience dealing with terrorism -- as far as I've read all by Muslims. ABE: Here's a reference to resistance the man encounters in trying to get anti-Semitism recognized in a specific case, also the attempt to whitewash the violence as coming from the Neo Nazis rather than the Muslims:
When I originally met Ghozlan, he railed that his jerry-rigged detective agency had to deal with a rigid French justice system. To register a hate crime in Francewhich comes with a higher level of punishment than an ordinary crimehe would have to appear in front of a magistrate, who was generally loath to call the beating of a rabbi in the Mtro an act of anti-Semitism. For them, Ghozlan said, it was a simple assault, usually committed by an unemployed French Muslim acting out of frustration. This enraged Ghozlan. I wanted to start a Jewish defense force, Ghozlan told me. Judge after judge told him, There is no anti-Semitism charge applicable unless someone dies. The party line of the Establishment Jewish organizations in Paris was always Sammy, stop rocking the boat. Back then, even David de Rothschild, the banker, told The**Jerusalem Post that the wave of attacks was likely coming from neo-Nazis, a hostile, aggressive, antisemitic, right-wing population He soon changed his mind. Also an interesting analysis of the situation as a Third Wave of Anti-Semitism, including a sympathetic view of Muslims who feel forced to turn to Islam:
The country’s counterterrorism forces are now desperately trying to cope with what is commonly called the third wave of anti-Semitism in modern France. The first wave, coming from the far right, morphed into the neo-Nazi crusades of the 1990s, which targeted not only France’s Jews but also the growing Muslim population isolated in projects on the outskirts of the cities. The second wave came from the far leftrooted in pro-Palestinian, anti-Israel attitudesand erupted during the first and second intifadas, with flare-ups in the 1990s and early 2000s. The third wave has been propelled by the recent rise of ISIS, has metastasized via thousands of Web sites and social media, and, in France, has become homegrown and home-schooled among a vulnerable population of young Muslims. One Jewish-American expat, living with his young family in a quiet part of Le Neuf Trois, just over the Boulevard Priphrique from Montmartre, told me, It can feel like there are two choices for a young man in the projects: sell drugs or turn to Islam. French Muslims who are as assimilated as French Jews speak privately of suddenly being trapped into the identity of Islam, whether they are religious or not. Sartre once wrote of the Jews, It is the anti-Semite who creates the Jew. The same can be said about Muslims, as the documentary-film maker and novelist Karim Miskwho was born in Ivory Coast and was not brought up Muslimwrote in Le Monde: It is the Islamophobe who makes the Muslim. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Percy Member Posts: 22504 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Faith writes: What is with this? It's truly totalitarianism -- only one opinion is allowed. I haven't done anything on this thread except try to present the truth as I know it, but somebody would like to censor it all and shut me up completely, ME, a complete nobody who just happens to be the only one at EvC with my point of view. I'm against the rush to judgment on Muslim immigrants, but some facts supporting some parts of your position are undeniable. The Newsweek article I cited in Message 1398 explains that Muslim violence, most notably Toulouse, have sparked a rise in anti-Semitism across France that is fueling Jewish emigration. It's not uncommon for expatriate communities to continue hostilities against ancient foes in their new neighborhoods. How does one know whether a peace-loving violence-hating Muslim immigrant would become violent if housed next door to Jews? One could be cautious and ban immigration of all Muslims, the reaction of many both here and abroad, but I still believe we must be driven by the lessons of World War II when the world turned a deaf ear to the plight of the Jews until it was too late. I wonder what the Jews in France are saying now about Muslim immigration. --Percy
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I guess you are alluding to what Trump said, but he never said to ban all Muslims permanently, just to take the time to find out "what's going on" which most take to mean to find out which are most likely to become radicalized. Some say that is happening with the current program. I don't know since nobody has specifically said how they go about it.
When you talk about the effect of living next door to an ancient enemy you aren't grasping the effect of Islam, which is the ideology that determines who an enemy is, it isn't just ancient tradition. As the account I quote above suggests, many get assimilated but conditions can drive them to become radicalized as Islamists. Muslims aren't anti-Semites the way the French are, it's the religion of Islam that tells them to hate Jews. The comparison with the Jews of WWII seems quite farfetched though, since the Jews were under threat of total extermination, whereas nothing remotely similar seems to be the case with the Muslim refugees, who are probably safe enough from their Muslim murderers as refugees away from their native countries, as safe as anybody is in a world where radical Islam wants to kill or subjugate the entire planet. Refugee status is not very enjoyable but it's not the Holocaust. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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frako Member (Idle past 335 days) Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
Yea but it says in their book that christians or the peole of the book are not enemies of islam.
Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.
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Percy Member Posts: 22504 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Faith writes: The comparison with the Jews of WWII seems quite farfetched though,... ??? Jews trying to flee the Nazi threat were denied entry by countries all over the world. By way of example, the US admitted fewer than 100 Polish Jews in 1939 on the eve of the invasion of Poland by Germany and the USSR in September of that year, despite huge numbers of applications. Communication with Jews in western Poland under German control ended at that point, but even in Eastern Poland, controlled by the Soviet Union until June of 1941, very little emigration was possible. After Germany flooded across western Poland to invade the USSR, communication with those Jews also ceased. Most were never heard from again. US immigration policies in the years leading up to WWII were very tight, and even Polish Jews with family already in the US were usually denied entry. Most countries at the time made Jewish immigration very difficult. The difficulties emigration-hopeful Jews faced in those years seem very reminiscent of what we see today for Muslims trying to flee war torn Syria. --Percy
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
Pointing out where you're wrong is not censorship.
I haven't done anything on this thread except try to present the truth as I know it, but somebody would like to censor it all and shut me up completely....
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
The fact that there's enough water in Lake Superior to drown a person is not evidence that a particular drowning victim drowned in lake Superior.
1) They have enough inspiration from Islam itself Faith writes:
No, there would not have to be previous drownings in Lake Nowhere for somebody to drown in Lake Nowhere.
2) there would have to be some active French anti-Semitic attacks to draw them into it
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
The situation isn't similar to the WWII Jewish refugees at least because the Muslims are in refugee camps away from their home countries.
And by the way if you google Muslim refugee camps you get stories about violence in the camps among the refugees, Christian refugees afraid of being with the Muslim refugees, violent robbery of visitors to a camp, and Swedish arson against refugee camps.
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Percy Member Posts: 22504 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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Those seem highly spurious objections. Where transcendent principles are at stake, whatever makes you think that minor particulars make a difference? The mistake that was made in withholding concern, compassion and outreach for the Jews before and during WWII should not be repeated for other persecuted or endangered groups now, no matter who they are or where they are from.
--Percy
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Nobody is "withholding" help. They are being checked out. But since when do transcendent principles" require you to take people into your home who might do some kind of harm to your family? I think you've got Your "transcendent principles" out of whack.
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jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: Nobody is "withholding" help. They are being checked out. But since when do transcendent principles" require you to take people into your home who might do some kind of harm to your family? I think you've got Your "transcendent principles" out of whack. And is there any evidence that Muslim immigrants, even illegal immigrants, are any more prone to committing violent crime than any other demographic group? There is a thread where you could actually present such evidence if you have it. The thread is Is there any evidence that illegal immigrants commit violent crime at a greater rate and any evidence if you might actually have any evidence would be appropriate there.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Yes there's lots of evidence that Muslims are more prone to committing violent crimes. Even evidence on this thread.
By the way I'm reading the book that did arrive yesterday (Philistine by Ramon Bennett) and it's so interesting I may not get around to posting from it for a while. I read it back in the late 90s which is of course a long enough time ago for me to have forgotten a lot of it. I remember it for the quotes from Muslim leaders about Islam's strategy for world domination, but there's a great deal more in the book, including a chapter about the habitual violence of the Arab culture, and one interesting bit of information is about how when Arabs who live in Israel moved out for some reason I forget, have to check the book which is out in the kitchen, anyway, when they left the rate of car theft and burglaries went down by 30%. The book is extremely well documented, but such facts are of course verboten by political correctness standards nevertheless. Maybe I'll go to that thread or maybe I'll start one about Islam's agenda for world domination. Will see. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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