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Member (Idle past 5114 days) Posts: 651 From: Jareth's labyrinth Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Abortion questions...? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
LudoRephaim Member (Idle past 5114 days) Posts: 651 From: Jareth's labyrinth Joined: |
Crashfrog writes: Why would I do it if i didn't enjoy it? Ask Rudoplh Hoss.
Crashfrog writes: And youre a shthead I know u are but what am I?
Crashfrog writes: What sufficient justification do you propose, apart from sadism, for the descicion to exterminate Jews, Gypsies, Genocide is never justified, though people do it out of hate, sadism, or "just following orders".
Crashfrog writes: and replying to my remarks with a snide "you tell me" is disingeneous, and indicative of youre basic dishonesty No, it just comes to show that you never answered my question: Is it okay to commit cruelty if you dont enjoy it? Maybe you should just answer instead of asking if it can be done.
Crashfrog writes: Youre not the only one who has ever seen a dog. I invite you to keep that in mind. Based on the words of youre former post, it seemed you never owned one, considering that most if not all people who own a dog will definitly testify to the dog's own personality and will.
Crashfrog writes: I've never looked into the eyes of a dog and seen the mind of an equal. Maybe you do? That doesn't say much for you I guess. Maybe you didn't see an equal mind (though he probably was to U), but he'd probably be more loveable and better to be with.
Crashfrog writes: Nevertheless, there is a reason why killing an adult, or even a child, is murder, and killing a dog is a property crime at worse. Actually, you can get jailtime for cruelty to animals, including such that kills a dog. But your right that it is not murder, just being a jackass. As for the child, a Newborn is not much different from a late term fetus (the actually being born an exception). Would you say that killing a minute or even second old newborn is murder?
Crashfrog writes: You mean like every human civilization has done for eternity? oh yes, that makes it right if ancient human cultures did it!! I guess we better bring back slavery and make prostitution legal!!! Instead of "Liberating" those Iraqis like we did, we shoudl have circled and starved those cities and then killed all inside. Wipe 'em out! After all, IF ANCIENT CULTURES DID IT FOR ETERNITY, IT MUST BE GOOD!!!
Crashfrog writes: I dont see a practical need to euthanize the severely retarded. Yet do you see the mind of an equal when you look in their eyes?
Crashfrog writes: There not typically residing in a woman's uterus and putting her life at constant risk. Oh yes, those darn fetuses! Their threatening our women! We must STOP them at all Costs! Forget the terrorists! Carnivorous, woman killing fetuses are lurking around in our women's uteruses!! We must stop them before it's too late!! Run!! Run to the codom store now!!!
Crashfrog writes: This is just another one of youre red herrings. Could you by chance state what a Red Herringis? I have a book which has a definition, but i'm curious as to what you think it is.
Crashfrog writes: It's all but impossible for you to stay on topic, isn't it? When someone states they would throw puppies into rivers to drown them, Topics ussually take a different turn.
Crashfrog writes: I suggest that you either make good on youre infantile threat to stop talking to me, or else you start discussing honestly. Infantile? You made the same threat in an earlier thread. As for honesty, I've tried to be as honest as possible. If I did a logical fallcy or a few of em, heck I'll retrack those statements on a future post. But it seems that you are also not taking up youre threat of not talking to me either. You lay off insults in youre future posts, then I will keep from them in future posts and we will discuss this like adults. At least for a little while (I have to get ready for another semester at College) No insulting language. Nothing to rawl up each other. If you do so, then we can get back to normal discussions. Edited by LudoRephaim, : No reason given. "The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
LudoRephaim writes: You lay off insults in youre future posts, then I will keep from them in future posts and we will discuss this like adults. That in itself is a pretty childish statement: "You behave like an adult first and then I will." You said in the OP:
quote: Practise what you preach. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1498 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Genocide is never justified, though people do it out of hate, sadism, or "just following orders". So then you admit your question is nonsense? Good, we can move on, then.
No, it just comes to show that you never answered my question: Is it okay to commit cruelty if you dont enjoy it? I did answer your question. You just didn't like the answer. Pointing out that your question is nonsense is an answer. It's a nonsense question, because it describes a situation that can't possibly exist. You're asking me to assess the moral qualities of a situation that is impossible.
As for the child, a Newborn is not much different from a late term fetus (the actually being born an exception). Would you say that killing a minute or even second old newborn is murder? It's against the law, isn't it? Why wouldn't it be murder? You're probably going to ask me what the difference is, and the difference is this: the law says that abortion is not murder, but infanticide is. Murder, being a legal term, is defined by statute.
I guess we better bring back slavery Bring it back? Where do you think it went?
No insulting language. Nothing to rawl up each other. If you do so, then we can get back to normal discussions. If you'll hold to that, I agree. Just remember that you're the one who decided to employ such language in the first place.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
This thread appears to be quite appropriate for those who wish to address the abortion issues so as not to derail other threads.
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Artemis Entreri  Suspended Member (Idle past 4259 days) Posts: 1194 From: Northern Virginia Joined: |
as a Christian I feel abortion is wrong, and it is homicide, and a cardinal sin.
as an American I feel as if it is wrong to tell someone else what they can and cannot do with their body. also as an American I feel it is wrong to hold others to my moral and religious views, and make them have the same views by law. I would try and tell someone who wanted to have an abortion to not have one and think about it, but I would do nothing from preventing them from using their free will and making their own choices in life. I would also seek to keep legislation that allows for personal choices. You can educate right and wrong but you cannot legislate it.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Hi Buz,
This thread appears to be quite appropriate for those who wish to address the abortion issues so as not to derail other threads. Indeed. From Message 67 of the Politcal Compass thread:
In most cases nobody is force into having sex. ... Nor is anyone really saying that you can't have sex between consenting adults.
The impetus of the creation of a new live person d into pregnancy lies with the parents of the baby. These would be the people intentionally trying to conceive, rather than anyone having sex because, gosh, it feels good, and it makes me consider my chosen companion & fellow consenting adult special, relative to those with whom I don't have sex. It helps bonding.
The passing of a person from inside the womb to outside of the womb is irrelevant to the existence of the person. So then what is relevant to the existence of a person: more explicitly what IS a person?
Abortion is the execution of a real life person. Before we engage in emotional loading of the language, let's define what person is, and then we can decide whether all instances of abortion involve death of a person, some instances of abortion involve death of a person, or no instances of abortion involve death of a person. As you, and many others, likely recall, I've addressed this on another thread: First, on Legal Death, Legal Life:
quote: and on Legal Death, Legal Life, Personhood and Abortion:
quote: You may not personally like the choices some people will make in the running of their lives, but you do not have the right to interfere with their rights to run their lives according to their values and to make their decisions as adults.
Murder is murder; But this doesn't define what murder is. If I shoot a monkey is that murder?
Abortion is all about people refusing to be accountable for their own actions. Curiously, I emphatically disagree, seeing as the person is actually taking steps to resolve the unintended results of their actions, and going through a difficult process, rather than having it forced on them. You would force your solution on them, and that would prevent them from being accountable for resolving the unintended results of their own actions in their own way, as a responsible adult, making adult decisions. Enjoy. by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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subbie Member (Idle past 1285 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: |
as a Christian I feel abortion is wrong, and it is homicide, and a cardinal sin. as an American I feel as if it is wrong to tell someone else what they can and cannot do with their body. This attitude has always puzzled me. I cannot understand anyone who thinks it's homicide, but believes it should not be outlawed. That you don't want to impose your beliefs about sin on others is easy to understand. But I'd appreciate it if you could expand on your reasons for believing you shouldn't prohibit others from homicide. Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate ...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist
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subbie Member (Idle past 1285 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: |
From the Political Compass thread:
In most cases nobody is force into having sex..... I see. So once a woman has sex her status, by virtue of that act, regardless of anything else, is reduced to below a clump of indistinguishable cells. And don't give me any of this baby crap. You'd prohibit any termination at any stage of pregnancy, even of a blastocyst that is less than 0.2 mm in diameter.
Take a dime out of your pocket, or get one from wherever you tend to accumulate change. Do it right now. Go ahead, I'll wait. *** Now, look carefully at that dime. See Roosevelt's eye? How in the world without resorting to a slippery slope fallacy, can you equate something less than 0.2 mm in diameter to a fully functioning adult human being? Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate ...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
As a Christian I think Abortion must be legal and available to all.
I have never found anyone that takes abortion trivially, it is not simply another method of birth control, it is not murder or homicide, and any attempt to restrict abortion I find immoral and reprehensible. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped! |
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
In the Political Compass thread, Buzsaw writes:
Did you notice the plural "others"? The Golden Rule requires taking the woman into consideration as well as the fetus. If you don't want to be forced to be pregnant for nine months, don't force her.
Regarding Abortion, I go with the Golden Rule of doing to others as I would have them do to me. In another post in the same thread, Buzsaw writes:
What about the cases where she is forced? In most cases nobody is force into having sex. "I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Artemis Entreri writes: as a Christian I feel abortion is wrong, and it is homicide, and a cardinal sin. as an American I feel as if it is wrong to tell someone else what they can and cannot do with their body. The problem I have with that is that it's not her body that's in question. It's that other person's body which she and it's father caused to become a live human being and perhaps a living soul as some of us agree is the case. According to Luke 1, John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit from the womb and leaped in the womb of Elizabeth when Mary greeted her.
also as an American I feel it is wrong to hold others to my moral and religious views, and make them have the same views by law. It's about killing a person more than what's moral. Should the babe be less safe in the womb than one minute out of the womb?
I would try and tell someone who wanted to have an abortion to not have one and think about it, but I would do nothing from preventing them from using their free will and making their own choices in life. I would also seek to keep legislation that allows for personal choices. You can educate right and wrong but you cannot legislate it. There was a time when our nation did legislate it as unlawfully killing that other person unable to speak for and defend itself against pain and death. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
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subbie Member (Idle past 1285 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: |
There was a time when our nation did legislate it as unlawfully killing that other person unable to speak for and defend itself against pain and death. Really? I wasn't aware there was ever a Federal Law banning abortion. Do you happen to have a citation? Also, are you planning on replying to my earlier post in this thread, or will it simply stand as silent testimony to your inability to respond? Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate ...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
ringo writes: What about the cases where she is forced? The place to start is with those of mutual consent. The legality of exemption for others could be on a case by case basis. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
subbie writes: .I wasn't aware there was ever a Federal Law banning abortion. Do you happen to have a citation? Also, are you planning on replying to my earlier post in this thread, or will it simply stand as silent testimony to your inability to respond? I stand corrected. It was that the states had the right to ban it. There was once this common law which would be the closest to at least a federal restriction at one time.
quote: The federal government should allow the states to ban it. That's the way it was before Roe Wade. That's my position. I've been too busy to respond much. I'll do what I can when I can. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Buzsaw writes:
The problem of exemptions is that they undermine your whole idea of "personhood". Is the fetus that was conceived out of rape less of a person? The place to start is with those of mutual consent. The legality of exemption for others could be on a case by case basis. "I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
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