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Author | Topic: Oh No, The New Awesome Primary Thread | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 313 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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Sad to keep discovering that leftists really do have some sort of mental problem that makes it impossible for them to follow the topic. Yeah, we keep wanting to talk about facts when you want to discuss fiction. That's so typical of the difference between leftists and righties. And since you have declared the fictional events in Trump's head to be the topic, so it must be, and only our mental problems keep us from taking his delusions seriously.
The fact that the story is probably fiction has been acknowledged by me I don't know how many times in this thread so far and yet you all keep talking as if that's what we're talking about. Well, I'm not and haven't been, except to try to stitch up the mental problem, which hasn't been working. No, the subject is the heinous nature of executing Muslims caught in the act of mass murder -- THAT is what it would be interesting to know the legality of in Pershing's time, even if the story is fiction. Because that is Trump's supposed moral failing, fiction or not. Perhaps if you all have a good vitamin-protein drink before you post on the subject again? But you'd still like me to do your research for you? Listen carefully. Whether or not Pershing's imaginary action in shooting the prisoners did or did not fall within the parameters of civilized warfare as understood in Pershing's day would depend on the exact facts of the situation. But there are no exact facts, because there was no situation. This is like trying to decide whether, when you killed the Emperor Napoleon, it was murder, manslaughter, or justifiable homicide. To decide this, we would need to know much more about the circumstances under which you killed Napoleon, we might even need to know your mental state when you did so. And the fact that you did not kill Napoleon makes these data extremely hard to acquire. Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Remarkable. Endless excuses for missing the point.
Yes I don't want to do the research myself. And I don't even really care if nobody else does either, it's just that I know there are much better researchers here than I'll ever be and research tires me out. But it would be nice if the task were at least understood. But alas the ways that can be found for evading the topic are legion. You want a real scenario but all we have is a fictional one, but there is no lack of detail from which to construct a putative reality that could be assessed by the real standards of Pershing's time. Except that for some reason you prefer to evade the task and keep on producing endless irrelevant posts. Oh well. I guess I can keep up the game too if I have to. For a while anyway. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 313 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
You want a real scenario but all we have is a fictional one, but there is no lack of detail ... Yes there is. Trump's ramblings were not detailed. Detail is not his mtier.
Except that for some reason you prefer to evade the task ... The task of "constructing a putative reality" I leave up to you, Trump, and any other right-wing loonies who want to have at it.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined:
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There is enough information to go on of course in the scenario you claim is not detailed enough.
Anyway: This is a hard subject to research as I expected. I want to know how laws dealing with enemies may be different since Pershing's time. Googling various aspects of the issue gets one into the Geneva Conventions and their applicability to various situations. Such as: The Heritage Foundation | The Heritage Foundation It defines what a POW is in such a way as to suggest there are captured enemies who aren't considered POWs, but pinning it down eludes me so far. Military trials are the rule, certainly NOT trial by US civilian courts. And there are some hostile entities who are not entitled to its protections:
Parties to the Conventions enjoy protections if they follow their rules. Entities that are not party to the Conventions, by definition, may be denied the privileges extended to parties to the Conventions. In addition to the treaty ratification requirements, Article 4 of the Third Geneva Convention protects prisoners of war if the combatant satisfies four additional pre-conditions. To enjoy the protections of the Convention as a prisoner of war (POW), a combatant must satisfy four conditions: 1. Be commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;2. Have a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance; 3. Carry any weapons openly; and 4. Conduct operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war. So I have no idea whether IF Pershing did execute some Muslims on the spot where they murdered a whole village that would have been a violation of anything having to do with the Geneva convention or general humane rules of combat. For a recent example, seems to me a lot of Muslim killings don't fit the conditions listed above. What that means about how they are to be treated would take a lot more study -- I should say how they WERE to be treated in Pershing's time. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Hyroglyphx Inactive Member |
BTW, has anyone pointed out yet that Trump's story about Pershing is completely made up? Some of it is true (dipping rounds in pig's blood to metaphorically send them to hell), but lining people up for execution and LOL! allowing the 50th to live is something Trump watched in Inglorious Basterds. Never fucking happened. "Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
BTW, has anyone pointed out yet that Trump's story about Pershing is completely made up? Yeah, I pointed that out a couple of times. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
I should say how they WERE to be treated in Pershing's time. I maintain, that it is how they are to be treated in our time that is relevant. Imagine that instead of telling a story about Pershing in 1911, Trump related a story about something Alexander the Great did, and suggest that we do the same. Wouldn't the implications of his recommendations best be judged on today's standard and his speech be at best a request to bring back the good old days?
The fact that the story is probably fiction has been acknowledged by me I Actually, the idea that the story was "probably" fiction really was not acknowledged by you. Up until know we have statements ranging from leftists are the only ones saying it is false up until there is some question regarding the truth. See below:
Faith writes: Never once heard it was false until the left started going after Trump. I believe I indicated that the truth of the story was in question. I might also point out that there is a huge jump between not treating captures as POWs and executing them on the spot. There is a reason why we used that prison in Guantanamo Bay. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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Pressie Member Posts: 2103 From: Pretoria, SA Joined:
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NoNukes, remember you're trying to argue with someone who thinks that it's Okie Dokie to own slaves.
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JonF Member (Idle past 197 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
You claimed that the debunking of the story happened after Trump brought it up and was carried out by evil liberals.
That is false. Proven twice over. Will you acknowledge that?
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JonF Member (Idle past 197 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
I seee they didn't bother to mention the Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, comonly known as the Fourth Geneva Convention.
quote: There's lots more. Wonder why the Heritage Foundation left out hat obviously apropos refererence? Edited by JonF, : Added emphasis
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Admin Director Posts: 13042 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.3
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Trump easily won the Nevada Republican caucuses:
Some have expressed doubt that the Pershing discussion is on topic. I believe it is. There are a couple core issues. One is whether it is right to murder prisoners without due process and do we want a president who believes it is. The other is more fundamental to a moral democracy. What methods can a moral democracy employ in its defense against a power with no morals, but still legitimately maintain its claim to morality?
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 313 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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There is enough information to go on of course in the scenario you claim is not detailed enough. Not really, but if you insist I can add a few details and construct a "putative reality". On the fateful morning of April 5th, 1911, a group of about 50 Filipino women and children approached Pershing's encampment with the shy request that they might gaze upon that imperishable symbol of liberty, the American flag. His second in command roused "Black Jack" Pershing from his sodden alcoholic stupor and disentangled his limbs from those of his underage prostitute. Staggering bleary-eyed from his tent, the enraged General glared at the natives and slurred: "Terrorishts! They're all terrorishts! Bring me my pig'sh-blood bulletsh!" His aide-de-camp (a grovelling toady) complied, and before the appalled eyes of his soldiers, "Black Jack" murdered the Filipinos in what is even today remembered with horror as the putatively real Massacre of Mindanao. I think what he did was wrong, how about you? But it's so typical of Trump to admire a man of this stamp. Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Page not found - MSN
quote: I expected this stuff would not get much play. But apparently that is not the case.
quote: And of course there is this for you PC haters.... Cruz Campaign Pulls Work from Controversial Artist Sabo | The Texas Tribune
quote: Edited by Admin, : Fix quote. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams |
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
It will be interesting to see the results of S.Carolina and compare them to New Hampshire as a model of the general election (and of head-to-head comparisons)
Path to Victory | HuffPost Latest News
quote: Same holds true for primaries, so I expect some more skulduggery from the Clinton Machine and the DNC.
quote: It is the independent voters that decide the elections, this has been consistently the case for some time now -- each party is not enough to win on their own. One thing to note is that Sanders beats Trump and Trump beats Hillary and the rest are in single digits (few independent supporters?) The primary this Saturday will not include independents (unless they register as democrats) so it will be hard to get a similar picture by combining the GOP and DEM primary results. Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 4.5 |
Gosh, jar, get a good night's sleep and have a heavy-duty vitamin drink and strong coffee when you get up before you try again.
Totally on topic post that gets directly to the issues involved. [/sarcasm]Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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