|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total) |
| |
ChatGPT | |
Total: 916,902 Year: 4,159/9,624 Month: 1,030/974 Week: 357/286 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0 |
Thread ▼ Details |
|
|
Author | Topic: Oh No, The New Awesome Primary Thread | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
Faith,
You never responded to this question of mine from an earlier post. So you are ok with Oriental Orthodox (Armenian Orthodox and Syriac Orthodox), Eastern Orthodox (such as Greeks or Russians), Roman Catholics, various Eastern Catholic Churches that are under the authority of the Pope, all coming in as refugees? Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
What does "recently" have to do with anything? By Jewish accounts - which you say we should accept - France has been one of the most anti-Semitic countries in Europe for a long time. For all we know, French Muslims might have learned their anti-Semitism from the French instead of from Islam.
Doing fine RECENTLY for pete's sake, until the Muslim attacks started.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
The Bible is NOT anti-Semitic. "The Jews, who both killed the Lord Jesus and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God and are contrary to all men: forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins always: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost." (l Thessalonians 2.14-16)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Evidence that the Koran tells Muslims to kill Jews, please. And do you deny that the Gospels claim that the Jews bear the guilt for Jesus' death ? I was thinking of the Hadith where Muslims are told explicitly to kill Jews.
The Quran's Verses of Violence
Hadith and Sira Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him." However, the Koran prescribes killing of unbelievers in general:
Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. same website linked above The Bible quite straightforwardly factually reports that the Jews vocally took the guilt of Jesus' death upon themselves, when Pilate offered them the choice of releasing Jesus or Barabbas:
Matthew 27:24-25 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it. Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children. No action at all by others against the Jews is even hinted at. This is simply a factual report about what happened. I understand that Catholics in particular encouraged persecution of the Jews on the basis of this passage, but in itself there is no justification for anything of the sort. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
"The Jews, who both killed the Lord Jesus and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God and are contrary to all men: forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins always: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost." (l Thessalonians 2.14-16) The simple facts about Jewish behavior and God's judgment against them do not constitute anti-Semitism, certainly do not advocate mistreating them. As a matter of fact Paul, the same man who wrote this passage you quote, writes a very passionately sympathetic plea for the Jews against any Christian temptation to lord it over them, in Romans 9-11, saying that eventually God is going to save them along with us.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
The Jews of France who are leaving now say they've been doing fine in France until the Muslim persecutions. You are making up another story for them than the one they tell.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Yes.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
ALL I KNOW IS WHAT THE JEWS SAY ABOUT THEIR EXPERIENCE IN FRANCE UP UNTIL THE MUSLIM ATTACKS ON THEM IN RECENT YEARS. SHEESH. There's been a steady exodus to Israel since these started. Was the same happening under Le Pen and all that?
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
The Jews of France who are leaving now say they've been doing fine in France until the Muslim persecutions.
Provide sources.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
vimesey Member (Idle past 102 days) Posts: 1398 From: Birmingham, England Joined:
|
And as along as they keep their PC blindfold tightly wrapped under those Gallic eyebrows they don't have to face the fact that their ethnic diversity isn't the lovely mixture of cultures they'd like to believe it is, because one of them has no interest in mixing, it wants to dominate. You'd be surprised at just how often in the past few decades Muslim people haven't taken over France. They could almost be said to make a habit of not doing so.Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
The Hadith are not in the Quran, so the Quran does not call for the killing of Jews
And perhaps you can tell me why you leave out 2:190 From your quote ? Did your source omit it ? (And let us not forget that Muslims hold that the Jewish God is Allah)
quote: An allegedly factual report (it's probably false) which happens to burden all Jews with guilt for the death of the Messiah, who is even taken to be God. Anti-semitism is not just about actions.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
The simple facts about Jewish behavior and God's judgment against them do not constitute anti-Semitism ... The simple facts that they displease God and are contrary to all men? Would it be anti-Semitism if a Muslim said that about them?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
From Breitbart: "Jews are leaving France in record numbers citing fears of Islamic terrorism"
The following story is about how Jews from Muslim North Africa found refuge from persecution in France some 80 years ago, suggesting that persecution was not a problem in France until the recent Muslim persecutions:France No Longer a Home for Jews Fleeing Persecution | Jewish & Israel News Algemeiner.com# The Jews of France are reeling. It’s been a month that they would rather forget. Although all European Jewish communities have been affected, the French community has seen a larger spike in violence than most since the Gaza war began. Earlier this month, eight synagogues were attacked in a week.
Jews in France no longer feel secure. Four times as many Jews as last year are leaving the country for Israel. Newsweek‘s lead story is Exodus: They’re Fleeing Once Again. Anti-Semitic attacks in Europe have been on the rise for some time, culminating in the murders of Sebastien Selam and Ilan Halimi; the Toulouse massacre of three Jewish children and a rabbi; and the gunning down of four people at the Brussels Jewish museum by a French jihadi returning from Syria. All these atrocities have shaken the 500,000-strong community to the core. On July 13, Jews narrowly escaped a pogrom as an angry mob of pro-Palestinian supporters funnelled down the rue de la Roquette in Paris. The JDL (Jewish Defence League) improvised a line of defence until police reinforcements arrived. Some media accused the vigilantes of provoking the violence, but their actions probably saved Jewish worshippers barricaded inside a synagogue from being lynched. A week later, a rampaging mob of 400 threw firebombs at a synagogue, a pharmacy, and a kosher butcher in Sarcelles — a suburb of Paris where North African Jews and Muslims live cheek by jowl. And French Jews, who mostly hail from Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia, and Egypt, are also experiencing a sense of deja-vu. Bernard Abouaf, a journalist of Tunisian-Jewish descent who witnessed the Rue de la Roquette riot, wrote on his Facebook page that the whole scene looked like a re-enactment of the storming and torching of the Great Synagogue in Tunis during the Six-Day War in 1967: a traumatic event that accelerated the flight of Tunisian Jews to France or to Israel. France also served as an escape route for Jews in Algeria after violent outbursts there, such as the Constantine pogrom — 80 years ago this week, when nearly 30 Jews were murdered. Mind you, this was long before the creation of the State of Israel — proving that anti-Jewish persecution in the Muslim world is not linked solely to the Jewish State. And in 1962, when Algeria gained its independence after a bloody war, Jews understood that they were not welcome. The community of 160,000 Jews fled — lock, stock, and barrel — to France. Now it looks like France gave these Jewish refugees just a temporary respite from persecution. For the second time in a generation, Jews are moving on.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
ALL I KNOW IS WHAT THE JEWS SAY ABOUT THEIR EXPERIENCE IN FRANCE UP UNTIL THE MUSLIM ATTACKS ON THEM IN RECENT YEARS. Let's hear what a Jew has to say about Christianity, shall we?
Because of the anti-Jewish narratives of the New Testament, the Jews were hounded from one country to another, denied to live as human beings, denied to work as other people worked, denied to play as others played, were in no country at peace, in no era at peace and finally persecuted and massacred. This was all because of the Christian bigotry and hatred in the name of Jesus. Obviously it cannot be possible to regard Jesus as none other than the scourge of God for the Jews. The tragic existence of the Jews during 1900 years in the Diaspora, the hatred they experienced, the pogroms, persecutions, murders and the destructions they suffered, must be mainly attributed to anti- Jewish statements in the New Testament. Christianity introduced contempt for the Jew and is thus responsible for what happened in the Second World War at the Dachau Concentration camp in Germany and at the Auschwitz concentration camp in Poland. What was started at the Church Council at Nicea in 325 CE was duly completed in the concentration camps and crematories of Christian Germany where six million Jews perished. --- Moses Bazes
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
The Muslims have no context n which to say such a thing about the Jews. The New Testament however gives a very thorough record of how the Pharisees behaved toward Jesus and tried to disrupt the Church. When it says "Jews" by the way, it obviously doesn't include the thousands, tens of thousands for sure, who formed the early Church, so the comment relates to reported facts.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024