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Author | Topic: The 2016 United States Presidential Election | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
You showed no lies in the quotes, you've just spouted off all your usual biased rhetoric. The guy has a reputation to maintain as a scientific expert, he isn't going to write an entire book exposing the Vatican's interference in population control, that is nothing but lies. It's an expose', it is a successful expose' -- I know there are many who have to deny it, but then it's they who are contributing to the lies that we're all mired in these days.
What you are willing to attribute to Jesus is blasphemously absurd. Violating our laws and putting American jobs at risk is not something Jesus would approve. But your false Jesus and false God are evident in everything you say about them. I'm just sorry it probably isn't evident to people who aren't Christians because you are seriously misleading them. ABE: Of course they have no rights under US law, how utterly absurd, what twisted leftist reasoning. They have human rights to be treated well, but they legally have no citizen rights though the RC Church confers them freely as if they were running the country. The RC Church is one of the biggest purveyors of immorality in every possible way. Instead of defending them we should be telling ordinary Catholics to get out from under that evil institution. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Let's tie this into the election.
I actually pointed out specific lies in the quotes you attribute to the man. This is exactly what happened in the election. You have said Trump said things you wanted to hear. And that is actually true; Trump said what people wanted to hear. He lied. He lied repeatedly. He continues to lie. He continues to misrepresent reality. BUT he tells the lies you and many others wanted to hear. This election was a reality show. It had nothing to do with honesty, truth or reality but instead was simply Carny Con-Man spiel. It was "Come see the Freak Show" and they came. And they elected the Freak.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
You and the Left haven't proved any lies at all. You are aiding and abetting an illegal movement. By your reasoning we should take in all the billions of poor people in this world. Seems to me Christians do a lot to help the poor in this nation and the world. Your idea of helping is a violation of the moral law and in fact what you are doing is hating Americans. And that's the RC position too. What interests the RCC s power, just like all the other totalitarian ideologies..
Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
That is simply not true of Trump or those who voted for him.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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Let's accept what Mumford says as fact at least for this discussion.
Campaigning for the accepting of people who want to enter the US because of impossible condition is no sin or crime. Neither is sending folks to legal aid to when they have a legal or immigration hearing which may result in those folks having a recourse to stay in the country. That's how we treat human beings in this country. On the other hand, harboring illegal aliens in this country is indeed a crime, but my experience is that many churches in this country, and not just the Catholic ones, do help folks who immigrate and seek refugee status in this country. I suspect that the reasons for so doing is that their faith commands that they do with even aliens. Given the huge number of Catholics suffering throughout South America, I am not surprised at what I see here. On the other hand, I cannot accept everything I see in this paper because it was written by a scientist. If that were really the way folks behaved in these forums, debates on things like evolution and climate change would proceed quite a bit differently in these forums. In particular, it is clear that Mumford does some editorializing in the paragraph you provided. Now to critique what I see, I sincerely doubt that his claim that the Catholic Church is the only significant political opposition to the kind of immigration policy that wing nuts want. The claim that the RCC does recognize national boundaries and national sovereignty also seems to be something of an embellishment, something that jar pointed out AND offered argument to despite your claim that he did not. Illegal immigration is bad because it violates statutes and not because it is an immoral evil in and of itself. All men are made by the same creator and all have an equal right to seek opportunity and happiness once they are here.
He goes on to say that the handbook also directs them to taxpayer-funded free Legal Aid for help in fighting deportation. The resources is intended for that use among other uses. I understand that you wish it were otherwise. Again there is nothing nefarious about defending yourself and making your case in an immigration hearing. Our legal system is set up that way. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
get it, you don't want to read it. Too much I guess. But it's full of quotes, graphs and statistics. Just the sort of thing you all like to see. Wow, coming from the person who routinely refuses to read stuff, that's pretty funny. Thanks for providing an excerpt. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
LOL
Back to the election Faith. Stop just posting absurdities. There is a statue on an island in New York Harbor. Jesus said feed the hungry. Immigrants get hungry. Jesus said clothe the naked. Many immigrants show up with only the clothes they are wearing. Jesus said shelter the homeless. Many immigrants are homeless. Jesus said comfort the sorrowful. Many immigrants are sorrowful. Jesus said heal the sick. Many immigrants are sick. Where is the violation of any moral law in doing just what Jesus told us to do? Is Vatican City a sovereign state? Does the Roman Catholic Church recognize that Vatican City has borders? This really is the issue and it is really the issue in this election. You and your quotes show that what you want is to be told what you want to hear, not the truth. il Donald told people what they wanted to hear. But what he is doing is something else. he is NOT cleaning house but rather simply gathering all the same folk that have been the system for decades. I can remember the US before the Clean Air Act, before the EPA; a time when you could at least see the air you breathed, watch the rivers burn, abandon towns as fire swept beneath them, see the lintheads dying from working in the cotton mills, see the billboard at the edge of town that said "Nigger, don't let the sun set on you here" and was signed by the Sheriff. I remember what it was like before the Southern Baptists took a public stand supporting decriminalization of abortion and moving abortion from dank cellars into clean medical facilities. I remember when separate but equal meant no paved roads or water or sewer and schools without books or light bulbs or heating. I remember when folks were sure the Pope would take over the country is a Roman Catholic was elected and I hope that I will live long enough to see a Muslim elected President of the US.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Seems to me Trump has already begun his job though not yet in office. Drawing businesses back to the US, keeping businesses from leaving. They seem to be responding positively. Perhaps you should look into his methods and claims regarding his drawing business back to the US. It looks like Trump and Pence came up with a 7 million dollar payment plan to save about 800 jobs. Meanwhile, the same company is still going to ship a similar number of jobs to Mexico. Nice work, but can it be replicated over the entire economy which normally adds about 5 times as many jobs to the economy each day? Should it be replicated? Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Of course they have no rights under US law, how utterly absurd, what twisted leftist reasoning. They have human rights to be treated well, but they legally have no citizen rights though the RC Church confers them freely as if they were running the country. What you spout here is simply wrong. They are of course not citizens of the US, but even non-citizens have rights here to an administrative hearing regarding their status. Nothing leftist about that. I understand that you wish things were otherwise. And of course the RC Church does not attempt to confer anything. Nothing you've posted here, even if taken at face value suggest that they are acting as if they run the country. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
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Genomicus Member (Idle past 1971 days) Posts: 852 Joined: |
I would like to see him throw the Vatican mob out of the country myself, since they are the ones violating our borders and bringing in illegal aliens. Fascist nonsense. The reason undocumented immigrants are in the U.S. is because of the U.S.'s violence and oppression against Latin America beginning in the 19th century and continuing onto the Cold War and the current "War on Drugs." You've always shown your true colors, Faith, so we've always known that you're not an actual Christian in the Jesus Christ sense -- but here you are, confirming it once again.
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Genomicus Member (Idle past 1971 days) Posts: 852 Joined: |
You and the Left haven't proved any lies at all. You are aiding and abetting an illegal movement. I don't give a damn about immoral laws. Ever heard of Jim Crow laws? Of slavery? Of the criminality of Judaism under the Nazi regime? Maybe once the U.S. stops its genocide, its oppression, and its violence we can talk about legality like it's the main concern here.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined:
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I guess I should appreciate that you've taken time to try to understand my point of view, such as by listening to Alex Jones, Thank you.
but you just sound like everybody else here, Mod. I'm sorry, I'd rather hoped I was kinder and more patient with you than most people. But yes, even my liberal European friends consider me a 'lefty'. Hardly my fault, though. The right-wing has explicitly legislated against my interests all of my life. Right wing folks constantly denigrate me and my tastes. They've campaigned to silence my perspective, such that teachers couldn't talk about queer issues in school, I wasn't allowed to marry someone who had a penis, and television almost entirely ignore my perspective except as the butt of mean jokes. I've been beaten and threatened with lethal weapons because of my taste in music, I mean genitals. They say my philosophy is dangerous or evil, they have put barriers against me in employment, in social affairs, in life. How could I have turned out any other way? The right exiled me from their midst. Not only would I not want to spend much time around right-wing people since they just insult and denigrate me and my friends on the basis of my personal preferences in fashion and sex - not on the content of my character - but they have made it clear they don't want me around, sometimes they don't want me alive. I hope you have an ounce of empathy such that you can see why I am the way I am and why I dislike the right wing so much. It irks me that no matter how hard I try to overcome my biases and treat you with respect and dignity you so regularly resort to rudeness. It makes it hard for you to not 'sound like everybody else' on the right-wing.
Thought I should confirm that you are right that I've objected to Obama in the way you describe: Thank you again.
I consider Trump's election to be some kind of miracle, God's mercy in a very dark time, which I can hope against hope will turn back the takeover and prove that the American system does work, but obviously the Left isn't going to just accept it as good Americans should, they're going to fight it with all they have. And this is America's problem. You have decided to ruthlessly fight over your differences, denounce one another as unpatriotic destroyers of the American Way. The divisiveness of America is practically civil war level, but it is not functioning in an adversarial system kind of way, you are just undermining each other and consequently not making any progress towards making America great again. If the left-wing's compassion for the downtrodden and poverty-stricken could be combined with the right-wing's determination that a strong economy will help ourselves and others...you could be Great. I don't see Trump uniting the nation, just deepening the divides. Sure, he's pushing your buttons, so to speak, but because he is denigrating, attacking, undermining or undoing the 'lefties' work.
Forgot to mention his Kenyan grandmother who said she was there when he was born. Of course they rapidly shut her up but she said it, we all heard it. That's not what happened though, is it? When you are talking to a 86 year old Kenyan woman through a translator over the phone, it is imperative you clarify important points because a lot can be lost in translation.
quote: Seems like an easy enough question but foreign languages use different grammar.Take the classic example: quote: and
quote: IF you were basically competent at German you might translate these as
quote: But you'd be wrong. They both mean 'The dog bites the man'. So here is what was asked of the old lady:
quote: Even in English this sentence can mean two different things, the way it was intended and like this:
quote: If the ambiguity exists in English, it can mean the translator picks the wrong way of translating it. Especially if we include the problems with the word 'present'. It's a funny word such that it can be interpreted as 'there' or 'here'. The follow up question dissolved the ambiguity and she answered:
quote: Of course, you are guilty here of exactly what you accuse the left of doing. Stripping the context and making it seem like a clear and obvious 'slip up' that proves Obama is unlawfully President. This was hardly 'trying to shut her up'. You can't rely on the translator to prove your point, then allege the translator tried to silence or cover for the old ladies mistake. If the translator had intended to do that, why translate the old lady saying the opposite in the first place? The answer, that an old lady who doesn't speak English answered yes to a question she didn't understand that was translated for her. She explicitly denied being present for his birth, so the only reasonable interpretation is that she thought she was asking if she was in Kenya when Obama was born. You can tell from the way the question was worded in full (it was a long compound question, that had the assumption that Obama was born in Kenya built into it) that the questioner was hoping to capture something of this nature. But again, this is my point, you believe the most tenuous nonsense when it called Obama's elligibility into question - but dismiss outright as 'lies' suggestions of Trump's unsuitability. It's completely counterproductive to achieving anything useful. Still, it seems that you'd still support him if he privatised Native American lands for oil profits so I guess we'll never see eye to eye regarding Trump's suitability. Here's hoping the left are as wrong as you claim, because if they are only half right it's going to be a rough ride. Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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In the past few days, Trump has made the following picks for his cabinet:
A fast food, minimum wage hating mogul to head the Department Labor.A public school hating, voucher pusher for Department of Education. An AGW denier for the head of the Environmental Protection Agency. While I have expressed the above list in negative terms reflecting my own biases, clearly those three areas are ones on which large portions of the population hold wildly incompatible views. I suggest that folks might reasonably hold different opinions on those issues and many more without being racist, wingnut, reactionaries, or left leaning, commie, radicals. I personally may find some of those positions wrong headed or silly, but certainly not evil if they are sincerely held. Yeah there are other topics where some of the rhetoric has been more extreme. You can get that type of discussion out of some folks; there is of course a loud segment of wingnut, xenophobes etc. and it is fun to pick at those folks. But laying everything at the feet of wingnuts is to underestimate folks in exactly the same way that Republicans underestimated Obama for two complete terms. None of that means there is anything wrong with calling out folk on ridiculous positions, but maybe folks like me should be a bit slower on the draw with the name calling. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2136 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
...but maybe folks like me should be a bit slower on the draw with the name calling.
A light dawns!Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
A light dawns! FWIW, I am completely satisfied with the name calling I've done in this thread. But I don't universally call Trump supporters wingnuts. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
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