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Member (Idle past 366 days) Posts: 438 From: Tempe, Az. Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Arizona: Showing America how to avoid thinking since 1912 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
There is no way you are going to get me to treat homosexuality as the equivalent of race or sex.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
There is no way you are going to get me to treat gay marriage as the equivalent of inter-racial marriage.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
There is a right to act according to conscience, which in this case comes down to a right to refuse service where it would violate one's conscience.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I'd agree that giving other reasons might be the best solution. I don't know if that was an option in the cases under discussion. Sometimes it isn't. Sometimes the actual situation isn't apparent right away.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
There is no way you are going to get me to treat homosexuality as the equivalent of race.
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dronestar Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
There is no way you are going to get me to treat blended textiles as the equivalent to homosexuality.
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DevilsAdvocate Member (Idle past 3132 days) Posts: 1548 Joined:
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The denominations you name are of course the very ones I would not consider to be Christian as they've all gone liberal and rejected Biblical inerrancy (except for the RCC which never was Christian). There are still some true Bible based Presbyterians but all the rest are apostate. The Southern Baptists are a motley lot these days, we'll see where they end up. So it will just be you and a few select of your friends in heaven. Got it. Now I understand you better "Faith". You are dangerously crossing the line on what Jesus spoke out against: the unloving, self-righteous judgeamental, legalistic, condescending, hypocritical behavior of religious but not Godly Pharasees. Here is a good article to read on this.
Pharisees are often "hyper-seperationists" in their attitude toward others. Since Pharisees believe they are "God's true people," they feel they must separate from all others who don't follow their "truth." True, Christians are to separate from the world, ungodliness, obvious heresy, and carnal believers, but these "sects" essentially refuse fellowship from all other believers simply because they don't go to their "type" of Fundamentalist church, keep their subjective "rules" and "laws," or idolize their favorite preachers. A few years ago your author and his family began attending a church that he suspected was overly separative and legalistic and soon his suspicions were proved true. The pastor would routinely ridicule other Fundamentalists "without the camp" as if they were second or third class Christians (if Christians at all). He constantly tried to force his "convictions" on his people about movies, television, even radio, dress, and other things (which we concede can be used for evil, but the devices themselves are not evil) and strongly implied if others didn't live like he (claims) to live they couldn't be in God's will and God won't use them. He devoutly followed the camp meeting crowd out of Resaca, Georgia and barely tolerated the mention of any preacher or church that was not in this "clique." The pastor apparently sensed we were not easily manipulated and we held no undue esteem for his favorite preachers or "crowd" and he appeared to only tolerate our presence. He made no attempt to visit us and inquire as to our intentions, he never talked to us about joining his church, and never checked on us when we missed a service. He finally did visit us (a couple months later) after we shamed him into it by saying we have been expecting him to come over, but he would not talk of anything of substance. I gave him a copy of my book on marriage and divorce (From Marriage To Remarriage), fully knowing he believed differently about it, and sincerely asked him to write a paper detailing from Scripture what was unscriptural about it. He said he would but evidently didn't think it was worth his time because he never responded or proved my "errors." If I am so wrong why doesn't he show me my errors, especially after I asked him? This behavior gave me the impression that he thinks his (and his crowd's) position is not to be questioned; he is right, that's what he was taught, and that's that. Actually I think he read the book but couldn't "Scripturally" refute it. He had his "arguments" against it but no scripture, and he knew I required Scripture. These people are so "holy" and separated that they have in some ways separated themselves from God and the Bible! John 8:4-8 writes: They said to him, Teacher, this woman has been caught in the act of adultery. Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. So what do you say? This they said to test him, that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her. And once more he bent down and wrote on the ground. I Corinthians 13:1 writes: If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal."It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World "In coming to understand anything we are rejecting the facts as they are for us in favour of the facts as they are. - C.S. Lewis, An Experiment in Criticism
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9207 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.4 |
There is a right to act according to conscience
Show me where this "right" is codified. What document is the "right" in?Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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DevilsAdvocate Member (Idle past 3132 days) Posts: 1548 Joined: |
There is a right to act according to conscience, which in this case comes down to a right to refuse service where it would violate one's conscience. And they still can do that. But they can't hide behind the law to discriminate. That is the bottom line. There is no such thing as a right to refuse service aka discriminate. How about discriminating against Hindu weddings, Muslims, avowed atheists (I am sure you disagree with there beliefs or lack thereof), Mormons, non-Christians, people who have pre-marital sex, people who dance at there weddings (some indepedent Baptists frown at that), etc, etc. What makes this any different than the above? What is the difference?"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World "In coming to understand anything we are rejecting the facts as they are for us in favour of the facts as they are. - C.S. Lewis, An Experiment in Criticism
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DevilsAdvocate Member (Idle past 3132 days) Posts: 1548 Joined: |
There is a right to act according to conscience, which in this case comes down to a right to refuse service where it would violate one's conscience.
Sorry you are way off base on this Faith. Jim Jones was acting according to his conscience as well when he led people to their suicidal deaths (or if we want to break the Godwin Law, Hitler). . In fact all of humanity act according to there conscience, warped or not."It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World "In coming to understand anything we are rejecting the facts as they are for us in favour of the facts as they are. - C.S. Lewis, An Experiment in Criticism
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
That's absurd. There is no case for Jim Jones acting on conscience.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Can I discriminate against felons? Pedophiles? Would you object if I refused to cater a Nazi celebration, or discriminated against a skinhead rally?
If the argument is that you might make a person feel oppressed, would you care in these cases? Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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dronestar Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
Give me liberty or give me MONOfilament thread!
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vimesey Member (Idle past 104 days) Posts: 1398 From: Birmingham, England Joined:
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Can I discriminate against felons? Pedophiles? And here we have it - conflating homosexuality with crime and paedophilia. Was that deliberate, or just spectacularly ignorant ?Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I'm sorry, there is no middle category. Homosexuality is not to be classed with race or sex, and the only thing it can be classed with is another unnatural sexual inclination. Or criminality, which is how it used to be classed. It ought to be enough that it is no longer treated as criminal, but there is no way it should be treated as normal.
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