Oh No, The New Awesome Primary Thread

Well taken.Beyond that, Trump is not the government, and most likely never will be.

Hi again Faith, Building a wall will not keep anyone out that really wants to get here. They will turn to more venal traffickers\smugglers to go around, under, over or through (checkpoints). The more desperate the more committed they will be to getting here. We see this with the Syrian refugees.What will keep them back is good economic growth in their home countries free of guerrilla and drug wars.Returning to changing the laws from being unjust\immoral laws to new just\moral laws, the question remains about what we do with the ones that were illegal and are now legal. So we could let in anyone, any time, and IF they commit a crime and are convicted of it in a court of law they could be deported, and that would take care of this concern, yes? (we can even stipulate they are vetted against "known terrorist" lists etc and have no criminal record in their country of origin). Pretty simple eh?Now let us consider how to integrate new immigrants into our vast melting pot nation.What do they need to do? (1) learn english (take "english as a second language" courses), (2) learn N.American history (Revolutionary War, Native American genocide, Spanish American War etc pus social movements from emancipation of slaves to women's votes to civil rights to gay rights), (3) learn the Constitution and the history behind it from the Declaration of Independence to the latest amendments and ones that are proposed).What else? Well I would replace waiting lines and lists with a probationary work period of basically being an indentured worker for a set period of time, say 5 or 10 years. At the end of that time you pass tests on (1), (2) and (3) above to become a full citizen with full (deportation proof) citizen rights.To transition from our current system I would give everyone on a waiting list credit for time spent on that list against their probationary period. And I would also give current illegals credit for time spent working in the US against their probationary period. Any infraction\crime would mean deportation and\or resetting the probationary time if they return ... or prison (depending on the crime: terrorist act, for example).This would make legal immigration more attractive than illegal immigration.American farmers and factories get workers, immigrants earn citizenship, the flood of illegals reduces to a trickle ... it's a win-win-win. Illegal immigrants are human beings and they have basic human rights, one of which is to be treated as human beings ... see the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights (an interesting document -- read it and see if there is anything there that you don't think should be applied to you).Enjoy

If Donald Trump actually had some valid statistics to support his position perhaps it's time he presented them. But he does NOT have any valid statistics and so he does not present any.I presented a conclusion from a group opposed to immigration reformation that shows there is no evidence that the rates of violent offenses is any higher among immigrants than the rest of the population.Are you really asking me to show evidence that there is no evidence?Did you read Is there any evidence that illegal immigrants commit violent crime at a greater rate Message 5?Is that not enough?Edited by jar, : add link to other thread.

And unjust. Especially when they divide families and separate parents from children. Curiously the incarceration and immigration problems are cut from the same cloth: treating other people as second class people ... people with less "rights" than "good" people.Detention centers in the south are no different than prisons in the north (some even run by the same "for-profit" evil companies).Freedom and liberty in this country are under attack, not from the outside, but from the inside: when we treat any person as having less rights the we are allowing others to treat more people as having less rights ... and where does that stop?Enjoy

Some, I assume, are good people.

I'm not.

I wonder what a person that advocates morally evil acts and positions should be called? Fascist? Idiot? Satan? The Antichrist? Lucifer? Repugnant? Ignorant? ...

What is common to Trump and Bernie is that the media and the pollsters are surprised by how well they are doing.This is because they are all inside the "establishment bubble" and just do not see all the people that were the big losers of the economic melt-down -- the ones that lost their life savings, their jobs, their homes, and then were ignored as the big banks were bailed out with billions of dollars (some of which went to bankster bonuses) while all they saw were the repo-men.Hillary doesn't get it, Bushy3 doesn't get it, the media doesn't get it, the pollsters don't get it. They were all well insulated from the collapse, they didn't lose homes or jobs, they had a temporary dip in life savings but are back and better off than before. For them it is as if the crash never happened.But for people that were devastated, they have been waiting 7 years for crumbs.So the conservative leaning left-outs flock to Trump, because he promises he will "make America great again" (ie restore the 1950's American Dream).And the liberal and independent leaning left-outs flock to Bernie, even some disillusioned fiscal conservatives aghast at current GOP candidates, because he will restore the base of the economy with minimum living wages, overtime and maternity leave, universal health care reducing individual costs, and free college for their kids if not themselves, and of course the young new voters. Which is why the democrat establishment (Debbie) is reporting super-delegates to inflate Hillary's current numbers (they can change any time and usually do change to reflect the popular vote -- they did for Obama when they started with Hillary).Enjoy

Oh goody I see there is a long line of accusatory PC posts against me since I had to be away for the last couple of hours. EvC never fails to disappoint. SO consistently wrong about everything.But now I have to go back and pick up one I missed. Now that's the first time anyone has bothered to describe anything about waterboarding so thanks for that. Everybody else is content to accuse accuse accuse and puff themselves up with their moral superiority. Which of course you do too but at least you said something about waterboarding.I didn't say Jesus would approve of it, I just get sick of hearing about this wimpy Jesus who supposedly loves illegal immigrants and jihadists and is always on the side of people making themselves morally superior over others because they have the wrong opinions. Jesus never did anything like that, in fact He was always calling down the morally superior Pharisees.The question of waterboarding now seems to me to raise the question of whether authorities are allowed to do anything at all to try to induce someone to confess to a crime. Obviously waterboarding makes people feel like they are suffocating, but are they suffocating? Has anyone ever suffocated?It doesn't sound pleasant of course. Shall we give up all methods of trying to get a confession out of somebody? Is that the proposal?

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There is a difference between beating someone to a bloody pulp and threatening someone with suffocation, don't you think?I'm going to continue to call you morally self-righteous know-nothings on putting yourselves above someone like Trump because he supports a technique for trying to get a confession out of someone that doesn't hurt the person. What is the matter with you?I don't "openly support torture," I'm calling you on your PC condemnation of someone who disagrees with you. So now you're wagging your superior finger at me for daring to call down you Pharisees. Give Trump the benefit of the doubt for supporting a technique he thinks might serve national security without harming even the jihadi who wants us dead, instead of making yourselves so holier-than-thou. You have no right to put yourselves above him. Make your case and make it respectfully instead of having to make him into an evil person. PC is far more pernicious than waterboarding.

Jesus forgave those who REPENTED. Go read the Bible. "REPENT AND BE SAVED" -- nobody gets forgiven who doesn't repent. The point of waterboarding is to extract a confession. If it's too severe, fine, abandon it. But stop making Jesus the author of your condemnation of people who disagree with you about the dangers and necessity of the method.

Actually I did not quite say\intend that I would be happy to have Hillary win the primary, but that I would be happy with any one of the three in the general election.And I will still be happy with Hillary in the general election should she beat Bernie in the primaries (while I hope Bernie wins) -- compared to the disaster of any one of the GOP candidates. I can see a Hillary\O'Malley ticket having some merit.What I see is that Bernie has significantly changed the debate, just as the Occupy Movement changed the debate. Hillary keeps sliding left to try to "suck the oxygen" from Bernie's campaign. It amuses me when in one breath she say Bernie is impractical, and in the next that she will go further and do more. Last night she said she is for free community college ... for the first time, rather than "debt free" college (code for you still pay as much as you can?).The political (r)evolution is underway, not just from Bernie supporters coming out of the woodworks, but from Working Families Party candidates and their support for Bernie.Even if he loses the nomination, he paves the way for Elizabeth Warren or someone else from that side of the Democratic Party.Enjoy

Nobody on my side has ever suggested that it's about the religious view the candidate holds. As long as a candidate doesn't violate basic Christian principles (I won't vote for someone who supports abortion), it's about the issues involved in things like national security, at least for this particular election. You leftists made up the idea that religion is the point, so now you are attacking the idea without recognizing that it never did represent conservatives. Trump is supported by so many, including Christians, because he speaks boldly about issues of conservative concern about the nation. It has nothing to do with his religion. Ooooh, there it is, the POLITICALLY CORRECT HATRED that you just HAVE to tar us with. You just HAVE to invent a motive for us, and a typical PC motive too: HATE. Racism, lying and hate. All categories designed to provoke emotion rather than thought. That's the PC arsenal of "political analysis." FIngerpointing, emotional propagandizing to draw hate down on your opponents. Because you don't know how to think. PC has deprived you of that ability.Here's a motive for you: I bet it makes you feel morally superior. Who is making "high moral claims" except the PC-besotted im-be-ciles who can't think? The people who support Trump do so because he's taking a strong position in favor of national security, a bolder position on that than any of the others, and he isn't afraid of your PC denunciations as most are. All your fingerpointing accusations do silence most on the right. Trump isn't easily silenced.Try thinking for a change. It will probably feel strange at first, but it will eventually lead you into reality out of your smallminded crabbed self-righteousness. Perfect. It's all personal attack with you guys just as I've been saying. You don't deal with the issues, you are wired to attack the person and that's ALL you do. No comment on anything I've been saying about PC, which is all that has been concerning me, just kill the messenger. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Nope. What rules the general election are candidates that have broad appeal outside the party -- it is the independent voters and first time voters that swing the election.Obama was to the left of Hillary, but he had broader appeal.Bernie has, imho, much wider appeal to general election voters because(1) he is NOT a party animal, and thus not expected to play party politics as much as Hillary in choosing appointments and cabinets,(2) he appeals to moderate (fiscal) republicans aghast at the current GOP slate, he appeals to independents with his economic plans and health insurance, he appeal to new voters, especially young voters who may be deciding their party affiliation for the first time, and(3) his star is rising, as more people learn about him his numbers go up. He is currently in a virtual tie with Hillary nationally after only two primary\caucus results. Part of this involves learning the difference between socialist and democratic socialist ... or social democrat. A popular party position in almost all European nations and Canada.This is born out in national polls of Bernie vs each GOP candidate and Hillary vs each GOP candidate. And that is while the season is still young.What becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy is saying that Bernie is not electable.Enjoy

That is one remarkable piece of sophistry there I must say. More and more these days there is a government that is garnering power to itself and ignoring the voice of the people, the President and the Supreme Court for sure and most of the time Congress as well. I am not the government. The direction of politics is toward totalitarian tyranny and the political correctness you are all exhibiting is a major way that is coming about.I always cast my vote in a Christ-like manner, which I suspect isn't your idea of a Christ-like manner but then you haven't a clue about any of it.However, I will correct my remark about Jesus not preaching to governments to affirm that His principles have nevertheless affected governments down the centuries, in the direction of merciful helps to the poor and suffering among other things, but certainly not in the direction of supporting criminal behavior such as illegal immigration. Those "Christians" (mostly Catholics) who give sanctuary to illegal aliens are committing a crime. The Magna Carta could be ascribed to Christian principles. Prison reforms had a Christian impetus, and so did the ending of slavery. Wilberforce's indefatigable Christian objections to England's slave trade finally brought it down there. The fact remains that Christ addressed individuals and not governments. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.