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Author Topic:   The 2016 United States Presidential Election
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 361 of 892 (794086)
11-09-2016 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 360 by dronestar
11-09-2016 3:58 PM


Re: The Clinton Machine
dronestar writes:
Look up "crime of aggression."
What part of "crime of aggression" covers one vote? And what part absolves the voters who voted for the voter?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 360 by dronestar, posted 11-09-2016 3:58 PM dronestar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 362 by dronestar, posted 11-09-2016 4:02 PM ringo has replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1417
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008
Member Rating: 7.0


Message 362 of 892 (794087)
11-09-2016 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 361 by ringo
11-09-2016 4:00 PM


Re: The Clinton Machine
Wow, you already read both of Mod's posts? Pretty impressive ringo.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 361 by ringo, posted 11-09-2016 4:00 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 386 by ringo, posted 11-10-2016 10:38 AM dronestar has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 363 of 892 (794089)
11-09-2016 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 343 by 1.61803
11-09-2016 10:58 AM


1.61803 writes:
They would of elected a monkey other than any established politician I think.
Then why did they re-elect almost every incumbent Republican running for Congress? They even re-elected Blunt in Missouri whose kids are famous lobbyists, for crying out loud. He is as establishment as it gets. If there is a monster in the swamp, its Blunt.
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 343 by 1.61803, posted 11-09-2016 10:58 AM 1.61803 has replied

Replies to this message:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(3)
Message 364 of 892 (794091)
11-09-2016 4:26 PM
Reply to: Message 353 by dronestar
11-09-2016 2:55 PM


Re: The Clinton Machine
dronestar writes:
IF a foreign politician voted to murder your children and parents based on lies, a crime of aggression, would YOU think that person would make a credible potential president?

This message is a reply to:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9202
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 365 of 892 (794092)
11-09-2016 5:01 PM
Reply to: Message 336 by Genomicus
11-09-2016 8:58 AM


Re: Sad Day
or an atheist

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
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nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 366 of 892 (794094)
11-09-2016 6:00 PM
Reply to: Message 353 by dronestar
11-09-2016 2:55 PM


Re: The Clinton Machine
As Mod seemed to accept my claim, Message 140 and Message 170, I suspect you either: never read my posts in full, are being willfully obtuse, or simply being dishonest.
No, he clearly does not accept your claims.
He agree with you on the moral argument. But he disagrees on the legal argument (you mentioned war crimes, which is a legal position).
I voted for Obama and against Hillary in 2008, because of her position on the war. But I never thought her a war criminal.
Modulous seems to not understand the difference. In 2008, Clinton was still defending her position on the war. In 2016, she has admitted that she was wrong. That's an important difference.
Still, I agree that she is a flawed candidate. But so were her primary opponents. And the primary voters preferred Clinton. By the way, I voted for Sanders in the primary.
You still have not provided any evidence that she was a war criminal. And you still have not provided any evidence that she is responsible for any civilian death in Iraq.
And no, I am not being dishonest. You are making strong claims for which you provide no evidence at all.
I'm not arguing that you should like Clinton. I'm not a fan myself. I'm just pointing out that you have been making strong claims with no supporting evidence. Believe what you want, but don't demand that other people share your opinions.
IF a foreign politician voted to murder your children and parents based on lies, a crime of aggression, would YOU think that person would make a credible potential president?
There's a congressional record. Can you quote from the congression record exactly when she voted to murder the children and parents of anybody, and with the exact wording on which she voted?

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 353 by dronestar, posted 11-09-2016 2:55 PM dronestar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 391 by dronestar, posted 11-10-2016 4:02 PM nwr has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9516
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 367 of 892 (794095)
11-09-2016 6:38 PM


81% of evangelical and born-again Christians voted Trump.
What kind of religionist votes for the devil?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

Replies to this message:
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nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 368 of 892 (794096)
11-09-2016 7:00 PM
Reply to: Message 306 by RAZD
11-08-2016 6:29 PM


Re: The Clinton Machine
So her vote was wasted.
There are many votes that don't actually effect anything. Perhaps most votes are of that kind. Does it follow that they are all wasted?
What it shows is her mind-set, her readiness to "solve" problems with war instead of political negotiations.
She was the elected representative of the people of New York. The problem she was solving, was to represent her constituents. It was not a vote on war vs. negotiations.
The question of war vs. negotiations was a question that the president had to answer. That was not a question on which Clinton had any input. Her vote was on whether or not to support the president's decision.
If your candidate consistently makes an initial (bad) choice counter to social progress, then they are being dragged to the correct path, not leading.
She was representing her constituents. Did her vote represent the view of her constituents at that time, or did not not? I happen to think that it did represent the view of her constituents.
If I had been making that vote, I would have decided that this was a time to represent what I considered the best interest of the constituents, rather than their view. But that's always a difficult decision for a politician to make.
Clinton might possibly have believed that Bush would use political negotiations, and not go to war except as a last resort. If it were me, then by that time it seemed clear to me that Bush had already made the decision and was just trying to make it sound more palatable. I was more cynical about Bush than Clinton was.
I think you make too much of this vote.
I was against Clinton in 2008, but not because of her vote. I was against her, because she was still defending that vote when should have been obvious by then that her vote was a mistake.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 306 by RAZD, posted 11-08-2016 6:29 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(2)
Message 369 of 892 (794097)
11-09-2016 7:11 PM


2020
What would happen if Obama ran for President in 2020?
Michelle Obama?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

Replies to this message:
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 Message 373 by dwise1, posted 11-10-2016 2:05 AM jar has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4451
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.5


(1)
Message 370 of 892 (794099)
11-09-2016 7:45 PM
Reply to: Message 343 by 1.61803
11-09-2016 10:58 AM


Well we now have a Republican president and congress.
I hope they can figure out how to govern because the ball in now in their court.
It looks to me like they made their case plainly over the last few years that they have no interest in governing. Their plan, now that the ball is in their court, is to turn it into a wrecking ball and use it to demolish our government and our civilization.
Our country and the planet are in for some seriously bad times for what looks like the rest of my life.
Obviously the Democratic pundits miscalculated how pissed off the average white blue collar American worker is the seemed to have made it to the voting booth in record numbers.
There were a lot of miscalculations. I wonder how much more pissed off those people are going to be when they find out how they are going to be rewarded for their votes by the republicans?

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 343 by 1.61803, posted 11-09-2016 10:58 AM 1.61803 has replied

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Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4451
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.5


(1)
Message 371 of 892 (794100)
11-09-2016 8:02 PM
Reply to: Message 369 by jar
11-09-2016 7:11 PM


Re: 2020
What would happen if Obama ran for President in 2020?
Michelle Obama?
Trump would have her imprisoned or assassinated. He made it plain during the campaign that either alternative for his opponent is ok with him.
He is a psychopath and a narcissist and he will soon be the most powerful person on the planet. He is convinced that he can do anything he wants with no consequences. Remember, he said he could shoot someone in public and not lose any votes.
He will be the last president of the United States of America.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 369 by jar, posted 11-09-2016 7:11 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 642 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


(1)
Message 372 of 892 (794102)
11-09-2016 11:18 PM
Reply to: Message 340 by dronestar
11-09-2016 10:28 AM


Re: The Clinton Machine
Yes, I am sure. It was from a Lebanese massacre in 1982. It was from the The Sabra and Shatila massacre .

This message is a reply to:
 Message 340 by dronestar, posted 11-09-2016 10:28 AM dronestar has replied

Replies to this message:
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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5952
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 373 of 892 (794103)
11-10-2016 2:05 AM
Reply to: Message 369 by jar
11-09-2016 7:11 PM


Re: 2020
What makes you think that we will ever see 2020?
I mean that in both senses. Will anyone still be alive in 2020? Will there be an election in 2020?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 369 by jar, posted 11-09-2016 7:11 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 375 by jar, posted 11-10-2016 8:17 AM dwise1 has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5952
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.7


(3)
Message 374 of 892 (794104)
11-10-2016 2:06 AM
Reply to: Message 367 by Tangle
11-09-2016 6:38 PM


81% of evangelical and born-again Christians voted Trump.
What kind of religionist votes for the devil?
You just answered your own question.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 367 by Tangle, posted 11-09-2016 6:38 PM Tangle has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 375 of 892 (794115)
11-10-2016 8:17 AM
Reply to: Message 373 by dwise1
11-10-2016 2:05 AM


Re: 2020
If no one is alive in 2020 then it is a moot question however the evidence is that the US has survived many such incidents, a Civil War that was anything but civil, depressions and recessions, natural disaster, pandemics, Presidents like Reagan and the Bushs and Andrew Jackson and Andrew Johnson (maybe the closest comparison to il Donald), several World Wars, bank collapses, hyper inflation and stagflation.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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 Message 378 by NoNukes, posted 11-10-2016 8:37 AM jar has replied

  
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