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Author Topic:   The Right Side of the News
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2851 of 5796 (863424)
09-25-2019 5:48 PM
Reply to: Message 2849 by Taq
09-25-2019 5:39 PM


Re: Impeachment Daydream of the Left
This Ukraine thing is just the latest version of the failed Muelller report. He said and did nothing wrong. But let's see what the Democrats manipulate into a basis for impeachment. Ho Hum.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2849 by Taq, posted 09-25-2019 5:39 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2852 by Taq, posted 09-25-2019 6:32 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 2867 by 1.61803, posted 09-26-2019 12:19 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 3932 by ramoss, posted 12-20-2019 1:48 AM Faith has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 2852 of 5796 (863427)
09-25-2019 6:32 PM
Reply to: Message 2851 by Faith
09-25-2019 5:48 PM


Re: Impeachment Daydream of the Left
Faith writes:
He said and did nothing wrong.
Then you lack all sense of morality and ethics.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2851 by Faith, posted 09-25-2019 5:48 PM Faith has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 2853 of 5796 (863428)
09-25-2019 6:35 PM
Reply to: Message 2850 by Faith
09-25-2019 5:44 PM


Re: Impeachment Daydream of the Left
Faith writes:
No the Mueller report did NOT SAY there was obstruction of justice. It listed some things Trump said that it insinuated were obstruction of justice but weren't.
"As such, the investigation "does not conclude that the President committed a crime"; however, "it also does not exonerate him",[25][26] with investigators not confident of Trump's innocence.[27][28][29][30] The report describes ten episodes where Trump could have obstructed justice while president and one before he was elected,[31][32] noting that he privately tried to "control the investigation".[33][34][35] The report further states that Congress can decide whether Trump obstructed justice and take action accordingly,[18][36][37] referencing impeachment.[38][39]"
Mueller report - Wikipedia
I'm sorry, but you can't make this go away by saying "No it's not".
If the report had found true obstruction of justice it would have charged him with it, because that was its purpose, to find chargeable criminal activity.
"Volume II of the report addresses obstruction of justice. The investigation intentionally took an approach that could not result in a judgment that Trump committed a crime,[17][18][19] abiding by an Office of Legal Counsel (OLC) opinion that a sitting president cannot stand trial,[20][21][22] fearing that charges would affect Trump's governing and preempt impeachment,[18][21][23] and feeling that it would be unfair to accuse Trump of a crime without charges or a trial.[20][21][24] "
Mueller report - Wikipedia
Mueller couldn't charge Trump with a crime because he is President. That's the policy of his office.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2850 by Faith, posted 09-25-2019 5:44 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2856 by ICANT, posted 09-26-2019 1:14 AM Taq has replied
 Message 2857 by Faith, posted 09-26-2019 1:30 AM Taq has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5952
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 2854 of 5796 (863433)
09-25-2019 7:24 PM
Reply to: Message 2845 by Faith
09-25-2019 5:29 PM


Re: Impeachment Daydream of the Left
The very first item on your list is false. I'm reading no more.
No, it's not. But your reaction is both typical and highly predictable. I didn't post it specifically for you, but rather to share it with other normals.
For that matter, I feel some idle curiosity about how many of those items you have even heard of. Everybody else has seen each of them play out in real time, but I very much doubt that you have since you restrict yourself to Fake News Network (and probably Fakes and Friends) and related radio traffic. They would never want to let you see what's actually been happening.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2845 by Faith, posted 09-25-2019 5:29 PM Faith has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5952
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 2855 of 5796 (863434)
09-25-2019 7:49 PM
Reply to: Message 2844 by Faith
09-25-2019 5:27 PM


Re: Impeachment Daydream of the Left
So what? Stop lecturing me.
Our minister would tell us the story of a congregation member complaining to his minister that he keeps telling them the same sermons over and over again. His minister replied that he had to keep repeating them because the congregation still hasn't learned from them.
We have to keep lecturing you because you never learn anything. If you were capable of learning, then we wouldn't need to try to teach you. But you keep proving to be incapable, so we have to keep trying.
Then you declare definitely illegal things as not being illegal, thus demonstrating that you have no clue what you are babbling about. Such glaring errors must be corrected so that lurkers will not be deceived by your falsehoods and also so that you can learn -- which you have proven you are incapable of, so we have to keep correcting you over and over and over again.
I didn't say impeachment depends on the legal status of these things, just that they have no legal status.
Then why change the subject like that? Percy was talking about impeachable offenses, not illegal offenses -- though several of them are illegal or else included illegal activities (eg, the mistress payoffs). So you completely ignore what Percy was actually talking about and tried to deflect and divert us away.
What deception were you trying to practice and why?
So many keep predicting that he's going to jail after his term of office and that certainly implies legal problems. I'm saying there aren't any.
Which Trumps has aplenty. Just to get a very short list started: violations of several federal and state laws, countless counts of obstruction of justice, countless counts of obstruction of Congress, ignoring subpoenas (which I would assume is illegal, since it implies punishment if you do not comply), tax fraud, insurance fraud, possible money laundering.
If that was what you were wanting to talk about, then why didn't you just say so up front? I think you're just trying to cover up here.
And I only read the first sentence or two of your lecture, have no interest in reading more.
Of course, since you are terrified of learning anything. Perfect example of the detrimental effects of creationist thought processes when applied to life.
Remember that when you bury your head in the sand, you assume the perfect position for when Reality comes up to bite you.
Edited by dwise1, : "countless counts"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2844 by Faith, posted 09-25-2019 5:27 PM Faith has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


(1)
Message 2856 of 5796 (863445)
09-26-2019 1:14 AM
Reply to: Message 2853 by Taq
09-25-2019 6:35 PM


Re: Impeachment Daydream of the Left
Hi Taq
Taq writes:
exonerate him
Could Mueller as a prosecutor find the president guilty of obstructing justice? If he could then he could exonerate him. But a prosecutor can do neither. If he has enough evidence to prosecute then he brings charges. If there is not enough evidence to get a guilty verdict then he refuses to bring charges.
Taq writes:
Mueller couldn't charge Trump with a crime because he is President. That's the policy of his office.
Is there a law or rule that an independent prosecutor can not recommend a president be prosecuted for obstructing justice if he has the evidence to get a conviction?
Mueller did not bring charges because he could not prove his case.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2853 by Taq, posted 09-25-2019 6:35 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2858 by dwise1, posted 09-26-2019 2:16 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 2866 by Taq, posted 09-26-2019 11:09 AM ICANT has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2857 of 5796 (863446)
09-26-2019 1:30 AM
Reply to: Message 2853 by Taq
09-25-2019 6:35 PM


The Crime that Was Not and Yet Was
You quote the weasel words from the report about how it couldn't exonerate Trump although it found no crime to charge him with, but as ICANT points out all the investigation could do is find or not find a chargeable crime. It found none. In any normal context that means he was exonerated by the investigation.
One of the biggest weasely things that was done was Mueller's claiming to Barr that there was absolutely no effect on the report due to the rule that you can't prosecute a sitting President, and then contradicting that later when he needed an explanation for bringing no criminal charges although insinuating Trump had done criminal things.
If a crime had been committed the whole point of the investigation was to discover it and identify it. The reason no crime was reported was that there was no crime, no crime of collusion or conspiracy with Russians to influence the election and no crime of obstruction of justice either. But the political concern was to insinuate that there was nevertheless. Without a clear identification of a crime or clear conclusion that no crime was found there was no reason at all for the investigation. You can't find no chargeable crime and yet insinuate that one existed anyway. You either find a crime or you don't. And truth be told there was no reason for the investigation, it was all a fishing expedition that caught nothing and was in itself a violation of the whole legal apparatus involved in having such an investigation in the first place.
It was a political fraud that unfortunately convinced many people through verbal trickery, innuendo and insinuation.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2853 by Taq, posted 09-25-2019 6:35 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2859 by dwise1, posted 09-26-2019 2:22 AM Faith has replied
 Message 2868 by Taq, posted 09-26-2019 12:20 PM Faith has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5952
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 2858 of 5796 (863447)
09-26-2019 2:16 AM
Reply to: Message 2856 by ICANT
09-26-2019 1:14 AM


Re: Impeachment Daydream of the Left
Taq quoted the Mueller Report with passages that answer your questions. I recommend that you read those quoted passages.
If he has enough evidence to prosecute then he brings charges. If there is not enough evidence to get a guilty verdict then he refuses to bring charges.
But Mueller could do neither, though not for want of evidence.
To your first point, Mueller could not indict the President because of the OLC memo setting the policy that a sitting President could not be indicted. To your second point, Mueller did not indict the President not for lack of evidence, but rather because of the OLC memo setting the policy that a sitting President could not be indicted.
In other words, because of that OLC memo, indicting the President was above Mueller's pay-grade.
As for exonerating the President, Mueller could not do that, but not for the reason you give (ie, that a prosecutor is not the one to find anyone guilty of any crime because that is not his job so he does not have the authority).
Mueller could have exonerated Trump on the basis of saying that the evidence shows that Trump did nothing wrong. However, he could not do that and he explicitly stated that he could not do that (and Barr directly quoted Mueller to that effect).
In the meantime, Barr's DOJ continues to block the full Mueller Report from Congress whose committees have urgent need to see that full report.
Is there a law or rule that an independent prosecutor can not recommend a president be prosecuted for obstructing justice if he has the evidence to get a conviction?
Read the passage that Taq quoted from the Mueller Report. Programmers have an acronym that they hurl at lazy programmers: RTFM (Read The --- Manual!), since expanded to the Internet with STFW (Search The --- Web!). Taq provided that passage to you, which you are fully capable of reading for yourself. What more could I possibly contribute by providing the exact same passage to you again? If you couldn't be bothered to read it the first time, why should I expect you to read it the second time?
Mueller did not bring charges because he could not prove his case.
Mueller explained why he could not bring charges against Trump. He did bring charges against many other people, many of the ones in this country having been convicted (the Russians have so far escaped conviction, but cannot enter this country).
Again, Mueller's inability to indict Trump and his reluctance to bring charges against are given in the quotes provided by Taq. I recommend that you read them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2856 by ICANT, posted 09-26-2019 1:14 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2861 by Faith, posted 09-26-2019 2:30 AM dwise1 has not replied
 Message 2869 by ICANT, posted 09-27-2019 1:08 AM dwise1 has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5952
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 2859 of 5796 (863448)
09-26-2019 2:22 AM
Reply to: Message 2857 by Faith
09-26-2019 1:30 AM


Re: The Crime that Was Not and Yet Was
Your latest senseless screed reminds of a remark made by Bruce Banner about Loki. So to borrow and paraphrase:
quote:
Faith's brain is a bag full of cats. You can smell crazy on her.
Keep your head buried in the sand and keep your body optimally positioned to receive the inevitable bite of Reality.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2857 by Faith, posted 09-26-2019 1:30 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2860 by Faith, posted 09-26-2019 2:27 AM dwise1 has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2860 of 5796 (863449)
09-26-2019 2:27 AM
Reply to: Message 2859 by dwise1
09-26-2019 2:22 AM


Re: The Crime that Was Not and Yet Was
The extreme aggressive absolute absence of substance in your post is remarkable as is the personal attack.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2859 by dwise1, posted 09-26-2019 2:22 AM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2862 by dwise1, posted 09-26-2019 2:49 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2861 of 5796 (863450)
09-26-2019 2:30 AM
Reply to: Message 2858 by dwise1
09-26-2019 2:16 AM


Re: Impeachment Daydream of the Left
Remarkble defense of the weasel words there. Since I've already addressed it I'll leave it for now unless I get further inspiration.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2858 by dwise1, posted 09-26-2019 2:16 AM dwise1 has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5952
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 2862 of 5796 (863451)
09-26-2019 2:49 AM
Reply to: Message 2860 by Faith
09-26-2019 2:27 AM


Re: The Crime that Was Not and Yet Was
The absolute craziness of your post would take the better part of an hour to parse and respond to. But to what avail? You refuse to read any response. You refuse to learn anything. You refuse to face reality. The paraphrase of Bruce Banner is extremely apt. Clearly your brain is a bag of cats (and that is putting it extremely nicely) and the stench of crazzy about you is overwhelming.
In addition, you continue to repeat complete falsehoods despite your having been educated on the fact that they are false. That tells us that you are deliberately spreading falsehoods, which means that you are deliberately lyyng -- gee, in Christian doctrine, isn't that a sin? Oh! Your defense is that you deliberately chose to not read the multitude of messages that attempted to alleviate you of your abject ignurunce? Well that is your own fecking fault and only serves to condemn you all the more.
Really, Faith. Why do you hate America so much?
Edited by dwise1, : added italics where appropriate: as in "extremely nicely"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2860 by Faith, posted 09-26-2019 2:27 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2864 by Faith, posted 09-26-2019 3:23 AM dwise1 has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5952
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 2863 of 5796 (863454)
09-26-2019 2:54 AM


Whistleblower Report Declassified
I'm watching the 3-hour delay of MSNBC for the West Coast. Their breaking news is that the whistleblower report has been declassified and is scheduled to be released with "minimal redactions".
 
ABE:
Link to NBC report: Whistleblower complaint against Trump declassified, could be released Thursday
Edited by dwise1, : ABE

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2864 of 5796 (863458)
09-26-2019 3:23 AM
Reply to: Message 2862 by dwise1
09-26-2019 2:49 AM


Re: The Crime that Was Not and Yet Was
Let's see, what's that, the third or fourth post tonight that is nothing but personal attack?
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2862 by dwise1, posted 09-26-2019 2:49 AM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2865 by dwise1, posted 09-26-2019 10:00 AM Faith has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5952
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 2865 of 5796 (863466)
09-26-2019 10:00 AM
Reply to: Message 2864 by Faith
09-26-2019 3:23 AM


Re: The Crime that Was Not and Yet Was
You persistently ignore reality and spew out bullshirt liies. That is indeed crazzy and is indefensibly so.
If you were to conduct yourself in a sane manner, then you would not have the stench of crazzy on you. But despite all the chances we give you to conduct yourself in a sane manner, you persistently cannot do so. It is what it is.
Conduct yourself in a sane manner and you will be treated accordingly. Persist in following the path of crazzy and the stench of crazzy will persist on you.
It is what it is. No amount of Sharpie markups will change Reality.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2864 by Faith, posted 09-26-2019 3:23 AM Faith has not replied

  
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