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Author Topic:   The Right Side of the News
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


(5)
Message 5 of 5796 (839364)
09-07-2018 8:05 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Faith
09-07-2018 1:32 AM


Re: Twitter Bans Alex Jones
Anyone here willing to stand up for Jones' right to free speech or is silencing him and undermining Trump the new standard of free speech applauded by you all?
Alex Jones? The Pizzagate guy? The "Sandy Hook was a false flag operation guy"? Surely free speech doesn't mean that people should be allowed to spread lies and dangerous "theories" with complete impunity.
In fact, in holding people like Jones accountable for their baseless lies, private entities like Twitter are exercising their "free speech rights."
If you own a business and have a bulletin board where the public can post notices and meetings, surely you retain the right to exercise some control over what can be posted on it.

We weaken our greatness when we confuse our patriotism with tribal rivalries that have sown resentment and hatred and violence in all the corners of the globe. -- John McCain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Faith, posted 09-07-2018 1:32 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by 1.61803, posted 09-07-2018 9:48 AM Chiroptera has seen this message but not replied
 Message 12 by Faith, posted 09-07-2018 3:58 PM Chiroptera has seen this message but not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 6 of 5796 (839365)
09-07-2018 8:17 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Faith
09-07-2018 12:51 AM


Re: Melania has guts
The problem is that a lot of people think what this anonymous insider is doing in "resisting" the President is acceptable these days.
For me, this has the same moral implications as "civil disobedience". Whenever someone is in a position where you have to make a decision to go along with something you find unethical or immoral, work within proper channels against the unethical, or violate accepted standards or the law to oppose the immoral, a person is going to make a personal judgment based on their beliefs.
In the end, all the person can do is make the best decision they can while trying to be aware of the "unintended" consequences, including the possibility that they may be wrong and that they will not escape legal consequences or the judgment of history.

We weaken our greatness when we confuse our patriotism with tribal rivalries that have sown resentment and hatred and violence in all the corners of the globe. -- John McCain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Faith, posted 09-07-2018 12:51 AM Faith has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


(3)
Message 30 of 5796 (839480)
09-08-2018 9:51 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Faith
09-07-2018 4:14 PM


I realize this response is predictable, but...
Remarkable how a lie has become truth and evil has become good and tyranny has become democracy. and so on.
Funny enough, that's pretty much what I think...every time I read what Trump and his spokespersons are saying right now.

We weaken our greatness when we confuse our patriotism with tribal rivalries that have sown resentment and hatred and violence in all the corners of the globe. -- John McCain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Faith, posted 09-07-2018 4:14 PM Faith has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 31 of 5796 (839481)
09-08-2018 9:54 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Faith
09-07-2018 10:13 PM


Broadcast media...ugh!
True, I usually don't go out of my way to watch any news source these days....
Me, I haven't really watch or listened to any news broadcast in years.
This has to do less with content itself and more that I usually find it frustratingly empty of any depth.
Plus, I'm much better and comprehending and retaining information from print sources than broadcast sources.

We weaken our greatness when we confuse our patriotism with tribal rivalries that have sown resentment and hatred and violence in all the corners of the globe. -- John McCain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Faith, posted 09-07-2018 10:13 PM Faith has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 32 of 5796 (839520)
09-09-2018 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Tanypteryx
09-07-2018 7:34 PM


Re: Twitter Bans Alex Jones
Have you noticed how many of the "best, wonderful, special people" appointed by Trump that have quit or been fired? More than any other administration in history. Trump is really terrible at judging character and almost everyone he has appointed is incompetent and corrupt.
Or worse, a smidgen more ethical than Trump allows for his minions.
Edited by Chiroptera, : Added more to the quote to provide better context.

We weaken our greatness when we confuse our patriotism with tribal rivalries that have sown resentment and hatred and violence in all the corners of the globe. -- John McCain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Tanypteryx, posted 09-07-2018 7:34 PM Tanypteryx has seen this message but not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 1553 of 5796 (851743)
05-01-2019 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 1542 by Percy
05-01-2019 11:06 AM


Re: What I'm Learning From the Charlottesville Discussion
Me, I'm getting the impression that some people are talking about slavery as if it were some abstract ideal and forgetting that it means "owning human beings and treating them like property".

Hell hath no fury like a white man scorned. If you take nothing else from the Senate's confirmation of Brett Kavanaugh, take that much. -- Kai Wright

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1542 by Percy, posted 05-01-2019 11:06 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 1562 of 5796 (851769)
05-01-2019 5:43 PM
Reply to: Message 1558 by Faith
05-01-2019 2:52 PM


Re: The fake news about Charlottesville answered again
We are creatures of our time and culture.
This sounds a lot like that post-modernist, cultural and moral relativism that some on Right tend to criticize.
Be that as it may, in my opinion even by the standards at the time, when most of the rest of the world was abolishing slavery and the fairly robust debate about the evils of slavery in this country, us Southerners couldn't possibly be ignorant as to the arguments against slavery.
In fact, considering that at the time of the founding of this nation, there was widespread belief - even among white Southerners - that slavery was an obvious violation of the principals upon which the Republic was founded and that a means had to be found to end it. By the time of the Civil War, the South had gone backwards on the question.
While I understand the principal of judging people based on "their time and culture", I believe that antebellum Southerners fail even this standard.

Hell hath no fury like a white man scorned. If you take nothing else from the Senate's confirmation of Brett Kavanaugh, take that much. -- Kai Wright

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1558 by Faith, posted 05-01-2019 2:52 PM Faith has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 1563 of 5796 (851772)
05-01-2019 8:35 PM


Judge Rules Confederate Monuments Are Protected War Memorials
From the Guardian:
Virginia judge rules confederate statues are war monuments and can't be removed
A Virginia judge has ruled that the Confederate statues in Charlottesville are protected by state law because they are war monuments - and will not be taken down while the case is ongoing.

Hell hath no fury like a white man scorned. If you take nothing else from the Senate's confirmation of Brett Kavanaugh, take that much. -- Kai Wright

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 1575 of 5796 (851789)
05-02-2019 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 1565 by marc9000
05-01-2019 9:33 PM


We're still talking as if pro-slavery was a legitimate position?
They wanted slavery to end suddenly, but they didn't want to deal with all the problems it would cause.
Well, aside from the historical fact that "suddenly ending slavery" was a minority position - and a very unpopular one at that, even in the North - I'm kind of curious:
What problems would have resulted from human beings no longer being property that would have justified continuing to deny a large number of human beings basic human dignity?

Hell hath no fury like a white man scorned. If you take nothing else from the Senate's confirmation of Brett Kavanaugh, take that much. -- Kai Wright

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1565 by marc9000, posted 05-01-2019 9:33 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1664 by marc9000, posted 05-05-2019 4:45 PM Chiroptera has replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 1603 of 5796 (851853)
05-03-2019 10:28 AM
Reply to: Message 1601 by PaulK
05-03-2019 9:10 AM


Re: The fake news about Charlottesville answered again
I think that the fact that they are being honoured for other achievements puts their statues in a better light.
At least Washington and Jefferson understood that slavery was wrong and a blatant contradiction of the (small r) republican ideals they worked for. Washington, in fact, did free his slaves - albeit after his death - and Jefferson supported forbidding slavery in the territories... and I'll remind the viewing audience that forbidding slavery in the territories was one of the issues that so enraged the Southern successionists.
I would say that Washington and Jefferson did much to establish the very republican (small r) principles under which slavery was eventually abolished.

Hell hath no fury like a white man scorned. If you take nothing else from the Senate's confirmation of Brett Kavanaugh, take that much. -- Kai Wright

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1601 by PaulK, posted 05-03-2019 9:10 AM PaulK has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 1624 of 5796 (851886)
05-03-2019 8:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1618 by JonF
05-03-2019 2:56 PM


Re: The fake news about Charlottesville answered again
They can't and don't vote in state or Federal elections. If you want to argue otherwise, include evidence.
The evidence is that Clinton won the popular vote. The only way that could be possible is if the millions of illegals hiding in the National Parks came out to vote while giving kids ebola in transgender bathrooms,

Hell hath no fury like a white man scorned. If you take nothing else from the Senate's confirmation of Brett Kavanaugh, take that much. -- Kai Wright

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1618 by JonF, posted 05-03-2019 2:56 PM JonF has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1625 by Coragyps, posted 05-03-2019 10:29 PM Chiroptera has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 1635 of 5796 (851914)
05-04-2019 10:11 AM
Reply to: Message 1634 by Percy
05-04-2019 10:00 AM


Re: Eisenhower's deportation
Without immigration we know what our future will be: Japan.
Or Hungary!
Hungary added a 'Slave Law' to Meet Labor Shortages. It’s Not Working So Well.
Edited by Chiroptera, : Added quote from Percy's post.

Hell hath no fury like a white man scorned. If you take nothing else from the Senate's confirmation of Brett Kavanaugh, take that much. -- Kai Wright

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1634 by Percy, posted 05-04-2019 10:00 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


(3)
Message 1638 of 5796 (851923)
05-04-2019 10:39 AM


Summary of the thread
So far, here's what I've gotten out of this thread:
  • In the aftermath of a violent confrontation at a protest rally, when Trump was talking about "fine people on both sides", he wasn't actually referring to the actual white supremists who were at the rally and were the topic of the conversation - he went off topic and started talking about people with a fetish for uniformed men made of marble.
  • Competent generals should always be honored, no matter how heinous the cause for which they devote their talents.
  • Raising people from a status of being property to being human beings with civil rights causes problems. These problems are bad enough they justify going to war.
  • Many people in the antebellum Northern US didn't like slavery, This was unprovoked aggression that justified going to war.
  • Mid-nineteenth century white Southern Americans who were angry that many Northerners were opposed to treating human beings as property.
    Early twenty-first century American conservatives who are angry that some cities require Federal immigration officials to carry out their duties without the assistance of local law enforcement.
    These two things are so similar that understanding one helps to understand the other.
  • This similar thing seems to be: white people get really, really angry when non-white people vote.
  • Jesus taught that his followers should be nice to people. If those people are Christians. Jesus thinks everyone else can just suck it.
That's what I like about EvC: I sure do learn a lot!

Hell hath no fury like a white man scorned. If you take nothing else from the Senate's confirmation of Brett Kavanaugh, take that much. -- Kai Wright

Replies to this message:
 Message 1641 by Faith, posted 05-04-2019 10:55 AM Chiroptera has seen this message but not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 1683 of 5796 (852015)
05-06-2019 9:42 AM
Reply to: Message 1677 by PaulK
05-06-2019 12:33 AM


Re: The fake news about Charlottesville answered again
You are really coming out as a supporter of slavery now.
Yeah, I came to that conclusion last night when I checked in.
A few days ago, you mentioned that expecting coherence from Marc's posts was expecting too much. Well, if you reread them with the assumption that Marc believes slavery was a perfectly legitimate institution and that Southern secession was a reasonable response to Northern hostility to it, then suddenly there's a lot of coherence in Marc's posts. Factually and historically inaccurate, but there is a certain coherence.
Which is unfortunate; I fear that means there is so little common ground that any kind of understanding maybe impossible.
Edited by Admin, : Fix homonym mistake: "succession" => "secession"

Hell hath no fury like a white man scorned. If you take nothing else from the Senate's confirmation of Brett Kavanaugh, take that much. -- Kai Wright

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1677 by PaulK, posted 05-06-2019 12:33 AM PaulK has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 1688 of 5796 (852026)
05-06-2019 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 1664 by marc9000
05-05-2019 4:45 PM


Re: We're still talking as if pro-slavery was a legitimate position?
Well, aside from the historical fact that "suddenly ending slavery" was a minority position - and a very unpopular one at that, even in the North
What's your source for that historical fact?
It's pretty much standard history. Just about any history of slavery in the US will mention that despite the how unpopular slavery was in the North, very few people advocated abolition in the states where it existed.
Most of the popular political activism consisted of opposing the Fugitive Slave Act and trying to prohibit slavery in the territories.
Added by edit:
I should clarify here: where Northerners did support emancipation, it was mostly in the context of gradual emancipation with compensation to the slave owners and with the cooperation of the Southern states themselves. The hardcore Abolitionist movement was minority position.
-
The Emancipation Proclamation and 13th amendment are historical facts too - well documented ones.
What is also well documented is that both of these things happened after seccession, and so aren't really indicative of the popularity of abolition at the time of Lincoln's election.
The Emancipation Proclamation itself supports this. As a result of Southern secession in spite of all the compromises the Northern politicians were making, Northerners were becoming even more hostile to it. Furthermore, Union soldiers were writing home about the horrible conditions they were finding when the were occupying Southern territory.
But still, Lincoln had to be careful. He was aware that the Republicans would lose a lot of support if it seemed like the War became a war about slavery, as well as a concern that he not overstep his Constitutional authority. For that reason, Lincoln was very careful to craft the Proclamation as a wartime measure under his authority as commander-in-chief against the portions of the Confederacy not yet under Union control (and therefore still in a state of belligerency).
And the Thirteenth Amendment was ratified after the War, when the political environment was very, very different.
-
The problems of not being able to support themselves.
I don't see how blacks couldn't support themselves when they were already supporting entire white families.
But seriously, the belief that blacks can't support themselves seems pretty damn racist.
-
Just how cruel and mean slave owners were, or how much that cruelty varied among slave owners is impossible to measure, today or back then, but slaves did have one thing, a secure place to live and work.
Yeah, I'm sure some slave owners were kind to their slaves just as some dog owners are kind to their dogs. But black people are not dogs, so that's not all that relevant,
What is relevant that denying any human being their dignity as a free and equal human being is prima facie cruel. You cannot have slavery that is not cruel.
-
There might not have been many, but there were at least a few black people who wore Confederate uniforms.
As one source put it: Yeah, and there were Jews who supported Nazis. What of it?
At any rate, every source I looked at indicated that these black Confederates deserted to the Union side whenever they had a chance and explained how they really weren't given much of a choice in the matter.
Edited by Chiroptera, : No reason given.

Hell hath no fury like a white man scorned. If you take nothing else from the Senate's confirmation of Brett Kavanaugh, take that much. -- Kai Wright

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1664 by marc9000, posted 05-05-2019 4:45 PM marc9000 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1690 by Theodoric, posted 05-06-2019 10:29 AM Chiroptera has seen this message but not replied
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