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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: The Right Side of the News | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6
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Faith writes: It was clearly stated that the policy against indicting a sitting President had absolutely no part in the conclusions of the report. Could you supply a quote from the report where this is stated?
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6 |
dwise1 writes: My reaction to conservative media remains the same: I cannot understand how any normal person could possibly listen to that tripe, let alone believe it over reality. That's my reaction as well. I sometimes hear my own mother repeating tropes from the far right wing media, and it is all I can do to keep my jaw from hitting the ground. From what I can tell, she is completely drawn in by the reinforcement of the fake christian persecution culture. She is absolutely sure that the rest of the world is out to get the christians, and right wing media is all too happy to feed that fear. The rest of the nonsense is also taken on as part of being in that tribe. It is just amazing to see that gaslighting works, and it is normal, everyday people that get drawn into it.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6 |
Percy writes: Three facts must noted about the original FISA warrant. First, two dossiers are mentioned. One, the only one referred to as a dossier, was of dirt on Hillary Clinton for the Trump campaign obtained by Carter Page from a Russian source. The other was research by Daniel Steele on Donald Trump's ties to Russia for the Clinton campaign, often referred to as the Steele dossier. Second, the fact that there were two dossiers mentioned in the FISA warrant has led critics to become confused. They misread the FISA warrant as saying that both dossiers came from Steele. Third, no information from either dossier is present in the warrant. No claims of accuracy are made for the contents of either dossier. Let's also not forget that Russian spies had already developed Page as an unwitting source back in 2015. Page had already been part of a Russian spy ring before the Trump campaign, so it isn't a stretch to get a FISA warrant on Page when there were questions of Russian interaction within a campaign that had just hired Page. Edited by Taq, : No reason given.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6 |
Faith writes: Couldn't possibly be that Barr honestly describes it that way because he sees it that way completely apart from anything Trump has ever said. Naa, of course not. We MUST discredit Barr mustn't we?"Spying" is a solid English word commonly used in such circumstances by official sources. "Surveillance" means the same thing but it seems to be getting used as a whitewash to deny that it means "spying." However you want to define it, it is worth remembering that the FBI went through all of the correct procedures for acquiring warrants. How is the FBI supposed to find criminals if they aren't allowed to investigate people?
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6
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Faith writes: Your statement that the FBI went through the correct procedures is disputed by some. The facts are that the FBI acquired a warrant signed by a judge which is entirely legal.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6 |
Faith writes: I believe the dispute is about a misrepresentation being used to acquire the warrant. Not all of the dispute. Trump is acting like he was "spied on", as if the FBI wasn't even allowed to investigate him, with a valid warrant or not. Also, the source of all dossiers was made plain to the judge, and the judge still signed the warrant even knowing the possible bias in the dossiers. The judge wasn't missing any information.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6
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Faith writes: There is some question, a big question, whether the FBI has such a right at all. That's baloney. No one is above the law, including presidential candidates. They were still investigating Hillary Clinton and her emails during the campaign, for crying out loud. Did you hear any protests from Republicans or Trump? Nope.
I hope this will be clarified by the current investigation, as well as what you say about the judge having all the necessary information, since that is in dispute. Only those who are blind think it is in dispute. The source of the Steele dossier was plainly spelled out in the court proceedings during the request for a FISA warrant.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6
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Faith writes: But there is no legal justification for surveillance just for the sake of surveillance, there has to be a cause, but there was absolutely nothing to justify spying on Trump, only that utterly fraudulent "dossier." The warrant was for Carter Page, and the judge found that there was legal justification for the surveillance. That's what the FISA courts do.
What she did was blatantly criminal, there was plenty of cause to investigate her. Then you agree that presidential candidates can be investigated. Remember that.
Hillary? Was she named? Steele was the source of the dossier, and the circumstances of his hiring was revealed.
Are FISA warrants granted on the basis of this kind of totally unverified politically motivated character assassination? You would have to show that Steele was politically motivated, which I have yet to see. Democrats and Fusion GPS weren't paying for made up stories, they were paying for legitimate dirt. If they wanted made up stories they would have sat around in a room and made them up instead of paying millions of dollars for someone else to do an investigation.
Is this how our Constitution works? Yes. Investigators put together their initial evidence and ask a judge for a warrant. That's how it has worked for the entire history of our country.
How about the fact that Steele was an avid Trump *****, was that known to the judge? If the Steele dossier turned out be completely false then their further investigation would not turn up any wrongdoing. As it turns out, FBI agents aren't omniscient so they need to investigate to find the facts.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6 |
Faith writes: If the court was deprived of necessary information they would have falsely determined that there was legal justification for the surveillance. If I had a billion dollars I could buy a yacht. "Ifs" aren't worth much.
Hillary paid for the dossier. That would prove political motivation I would think. It doesn't. Hillary was paying for real information, so Steele wasn't politically motivated. Steele was essentially being paid to be a private investigator.
I believe there is evidence that it was known to be a fraud before the FISA warrants were acquired that may be made public soon. We'll have to wait and see about that. As others have mentioned, the Steele dossier wasn't really that important and was certainly not the only document presented to the FISA courts.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6 |
Faith writes: Trump is protecting the Presidency against attempts to destroy the separation of powers. That's a flat out lie. Trump is working against the Constitutional powers granted to Congress. Trump is actively destroying the separation of powers.
Congress is asking for things he is not required to give them. That is also a lie. Any American, including Trump, is subject to having their IRS returns sent to Congress. That is within the powers of Congress, and Trump is trying to destroy the separation of powers.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6 |
Faith writes: What has been done to Trump over the last two years is just unconscionable and anyone who thinks it justified does not get any trust from me. So I'm waiting. What has happened to Trump is no different than what Republicans did to Clinton in the 90's.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6
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Faith writes:
God help us.
Indeed. As Trump continues to step all over the Constitution, we do need help. Perhaps you forgot that Congress is an equal and separate power under the Constitution?
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6 |
Faith writes: No, it's Congress and the **** who have forgotten that the Presidency is an equal and separate power under the Constitution. Congress was given the power to oversee the Executive branch in the US Constitution. It is also law that Congress can receive on request the IRS returns from any citizen, including the President. It is only you who is supporting the destruction of our laws and Constitution.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6
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Tanypteryx writes: If Trump and his cronies are innocent, why the total stonewall of all Congressional investigations. Trump is an adult. If he wanted privacy for his criminality he should not have run for President. If he is afraid of what the press will find out about his lies and criminal conduct, he should not have run for President. If he didn't want anyone to look into his finances he should not have run for President. And he should have kept his stupid mouth shut about his wealth and financing. It is clear he has been lying about his wealth to the media for decades. Let's also not forget that the investigation into President Bill Clinton by Ken Starr was because of allegations made in connection with savings and loan banks. How strange that Republicans only have a memory that goes back to George W. Bush. Have Republicans also forgotten that they impeached President Bill Clinton over supposed crimes that had no connection to the original investigation into potential financial crimes? Has Trump been impeached? Before right-wingers start crying over how badly Trump is being treated, perhaps they ought to read some history from the 1990's.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6
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Faith writes: Trump cooperated more than any other President ever did, with the Mueller investigation, supplied tons of documents. Please give us the sources and evidence you are using to determine that Trump cooperated more than any other President. Also, those documents were subpoenaed, so it isn't like he had a choice.
He does not have to turn over his tax information. The IRS does have to turn them over as stated in US law.
Although I just heard it's not his tax returns being demanded now but the information from financial institutions. Deutsche Bank has to turn those over because Congress subpoenaed them, a power that Congress was given in the US Constitution. Have you forgotten about the investigation into President Bill Clinton where Congress and Special Counsel Ken Starr subpoenaed evidence from financial institutions? Do you have amnesia?
Ugh I hope this all gets exposed and you all have to admit you're wrong. I haven't said anything about Trump doing anything illegal with his finances. What I have said is the Congress has the constitutional power to oversee the Executive branch, has the power to get IRS tax returns, and has the power to subpoena financial institutions. You seem to want to ignore the Constitution, as do most Trump supporters.
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