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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Gay Marriage as an attack on Christianity | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: It's not because of their sins it's because of God's ordinance of marriage. But as you pointed out just above that is not true either. It's not God's ordinance that is the issue but rather a limited sect of Christians interpretations that are the issue. It's not God telling you what to do it is those folk marketing some interpretation.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: There must be millions of us too, but unfortunately there are people who think they are Bible-believers who aren't so it's hard to know the numbers. Again Faith, reality says that you are wrong. You do not get to decide whether or not someone is a Bible Believer. Sorry but them's the facts. You can decide someone cannot be a member of your chapter of Club Christian but you do not get to impose your bible interpretations on others. Thank God God's law carries no weight in the US.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Jesus of course was not a Christian but he certainly was both a communist and a socialist who was very much in favor of equality. Looks like you are yet another ignorant Christian who has never actually read the Bible and knows nothing about Jesus or his message.
Remember, all the goats were his followers.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: Apart from the fact that Jesus was no such thing, it's so odd that anyone would claim Communism, or socialism either, is in favor of equality, unless of course that means equality of poverty for the masses and extravagant wealth for the bosses. Once again Faith, you are simply showing that you have not read any of the books written by Marx or Trotsky describing communism just as you have not shown you have read the Bible. Jesus lived in a commune with needs met by those who could afford the largess expecting the members to produce what they could. He lived by "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need(s)".
Acts:11:29 writes: Then the disciples, every man according to his ability, determined to send relief unto the brethren which dwelt in Judaea: Also the parable of the Talents.
Acts 4:32-35 writes: 32 All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had. 33 With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them all 34 that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales 35 and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need. Edited by jar, : add biblical passages since it seems they had not been read.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: You need to stop reading your liberal commentaries. I don't read commentaries Faith, I read what the Bible actually says. Jesus did have a place to lay his head since he did live within a community made up of followers and outsiders that contributed to support his marketing efforts. It was a classic example of "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need(s)". Wealth donors provided income and his roadies learned from him and helped market his product. But each left their job to join the commune you will notice. But again Faith, you have still failed to show any actual support for your assertion that "Gay Marriage as an attack on Christianity" has any basis in reality. You have demonstrated that different chapters of Club Christian have created their own interpretations of what the Bible actually says yet that does not in any way change the fact of what the Bible says. You have only shown that you create the "Christianity" and "Jesus" and "God" that suits your desired beliefs.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: You did quote a bishop some time ago as having the same views you have, but if you do just get your wacko readings of the Bible on your own, that would make sense. We need preachers and teachers to get it right and you are a poster child for how wrong it's possible to be. Actually no, I quoted a Bishop that understood that the Bible actually says what it says instead of relying on what the apologists make up. But that still does not change the fact that the Bible actually says what it says and not what the commentators wished it said. But again Faith, you have still failed to show any actual support for your assertion that "Gay Marriage as an attack on Christianity" has any basis in reality. You have demonstrated that different chapters of Club Christian have created their own interpretations of what the Bible actually says yet that does not in any way change the fact of what the Bible says. You have only shown that you create the "Christianity" and "Jesus" and "God" that suits your desired beliefs.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: Only a total idiot would think he's the only one who can read the Bible correctly. An arrogant total idiot. I agree. I simply report what it actually says. That is why I do not interpret what it says. I am not the arrogant total fool.
Faith writes: We still have to choose between different interpretations of what it says. Why. Why do we have to choose any interpretations. Why not simply acknowledge that it actually says what it says?
Faith writes: I also think this thread has proved many times the truth of the title. Yet you cannot point to any examples that show Gay Marriage as an attack on Christianity. Why is that?
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: There is no such thing as "says what it says." Of course there is "says what it says". It's not a matter of what I think it says but rather the actual words written. Edited by jar, : fix quote box
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: It's absolutely certain that YOU can't read it accurately so like it or not you have interpretations and in fact the worst possible interpretations.I can't remember one thing you've ever said about what the Bible says that is true. Yes, we know you keep making that claim, yet it seems I actually post what the Bible actually says so all people can check to see if I have not reported honestly and correctly. For example:
Acts 4:32-35 writes: 32 All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had. 33 With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them all 34 that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales 35 and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need. Acts 4:32-35 is not about simple charity but rather specifically says that none of the believers claimed ownership of any possessions and those that needed were supplied and those that could support supported. From each according to his ability, to each according to his need(s). It describes how they lived and a was one of the sources that inspired Marx.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Faith writes: You also misattributed my comment about "simple charity" which was meant to explain Acts 11:29 in your Message 874 about believers who were in Antioch sending aid to Jerusalem during the famine that occurred in Claudius' time. But simply charity and empathy is the essence of communism. Those that have give to those that need. From each according to his ability, to each according to his need(s). Both passages reflect the fact that Jesus and the movement founded around Jesus began as a communist/socialist revolutionary movement. That is clear in passage after passage quoting Jesus. It is only later Christianity that perverted Jesus movement.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Dredge writes: Btw, what is his message, in your opinion? All the goats were his followers. I didn't know that and I wonder what you mean by this. We are moving far away from the topic so start a new topic and I will try to educate you but Jesus message is really clear and simple. Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, comfort the sorrowful, protect the weak, heal the sick.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I understand that you believe what you are asserting but unfortunately it has nothing to do with accuracy or reality. There is nothing in either communism or socialism that says it must be forced on people and in fact almost all communist nations have been democracies.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: You say the strangest things. USSR? Communist China? Eh? Again, start a new topic Faith and perhaps you might learn a little.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Just a few sources that may help educate you.
The Democracy you didn't know about. Democracy in China Communism is definitely based on the concept of democracy and a bottom up democracy. Mao in particular was very much in favor of democracy and part of what lead to the later wars (just as in Vietnam) was US intervention to deny the outcome of popular elections. If you do not wish to learn that is fine but you simply have no understanding it seems of even the most basic reality and history.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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ICANT writes: But they all believe in a Government that does have a religious influence. There is not a person here that supports abortion or gay rights that does not believe in the Government dictating religious beliefs. When the Government starts dictating religious beliefs that I must obey with penalty of law, the Government has violated my freedom of religion, as it is dictating Church doctrine. When the Government dictates Church doctrine it has established a religion. God Bless, Bullshit. Sorry but that is simply utter nonsense and yet another attempt at a theistic con job. No law mandates that anyone have an abortion. No law mandates anyone must marry someone of the same sex. You position is not just dishonest it is absurd. AbE: The government does not dictate doctrine. Those who believe abortion is wrong are absolutely free to not get abortions. Those who believe same-sex marriages are wrong are absolutely free to not marry someone of the same sex. Tell a religion that it cannot force it's beliefs on those who believe differently is not establishing a religion. Edited by jar, : see AbE and fix the sub-title
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