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Author Topic:   Gay Marriage as an attack on Christianity
Faith
Member
Posts: 32715
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1383 of 1484 (855395)
06-19-2019 8:27 AM
Reply to: Message 1382 by Tangle
06-19-2019 8:15 AM


Re: SCOTUS refuses to hear about "gay wedding cakes"
I speak simply and factually, you are projecting all the stuff about my supposed desire for martyrdom. The fact is that the law is going against Christians and when someone expresses a wish to grind us back to the stone age that has a rather violent tone to it. This has absolutely nothing to do with my feelings. I'm very detached and objective about it all. You guys are always making up motivations for me; they have nothing whatever to do with me or my motivations.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1382 by Tangle, posted 06-19-2019 8:15 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1384 by Tangle, posted 06-19-2019 8:44 AM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32715
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1408 of 1484 (855435)
06-19-2019 6:46 PM
Reply to: Message 1384 by Tangle
06-19-2019 8:44 AM


Re: SCOTUS refuses to hear about "gay wedding cakes"
If you think I'm looking forward to Armageddon, which is a horrific war prophesied for the very end of time, no you do not know me at all. Yes I look forward to the Rapture. You don't seem to know what these things mean.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1384 by Tangle, posted 06-19-2019 8:44 AM Tangle has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1419 by ringo, posted 06-20-2019 11:57 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32715
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1409 of 1484 (855436)
06-19-2019 6:58 PM
Reply to: Message 1385 by Chiroptera
06-19-2019 9:12 AM


Re: SCOTUS refuses to hear about "gay wedding cakes"
Faith writes:

it's the Bible believer who acts on his/her conscience who will obey God and nobody else and take whatever the secular society metes out for the "crime."

That is the whole point to my mind and there is no other point to be considered. This isn't something a court or anyone else can decide, only the person put in the position of obeying or denying God according to his or her own understanding. Whether it's about a message on the cake, mannikins, decorations or just the fact that it is for a gay wedding, it's the baker's conscience that's engaged and nobody else can decide this.

But it does need to be kept in mind that a wedding cake is a very special custom-made and often personally designed item, from the ingredients in the cake itself to the structure of it to the decorations on it. It's a creative work by the baker for a special purpose. If a cake off the shelf would do I'm sure there would be no problem, but this sort of special creation puts the baker in a particular dilemma.

It seems that a lot of these problems could be avoided if people would avoid occupations that require duties that go against their conscience.

Melissa, who with her husband was the owner of the wedding cake business in Oregon, that was vandalized, fined and eventually put out of business, had been in business for years, had always wanted to make wedding cakes, considered it a calling. The law that brought all this grief down on her is a very recent thing so it's a little late to ask her to avoid the occupation. She and her husband were very polite to the lesbian couple who asked for a wedding cake but declined on the basis of their Christian belief. They had known the lesbian girls for some time and had no problem with selling them any other item they made.

If the law stays as it is such people really have no option but to refuse and take the consequences.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1385 by Chiroptera, posted 06-19-2019 9:12 AM Chiroptera has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1411 by Chiroptera, posted 06-19-2019 7:55 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 1413 by PaulK, posted 06-20-2019 12:11 AM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32715
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1414 of 1484 (855463)
06-20-2019 12:13 AM
Reply to: Message 1413 by PaulK
06-20-2019 12:11 AM


Re: SCOTUS refuses to hear about "gay wedding cakes"
Nothing I said was about being "allowed." I said we would take the consequences.

So if a segregationist also acts on conscience and takesthe consequences why not?

But your comparison is of course just the usual twisted trap.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1413 by PaulK, posted 06-20-2019 12:11 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1415 by PaulK, posted 06-20-2019 12:31 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32715
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1420 of 1484 (855521)
06-20-2019 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 1418 by Hyroglyphx
06-20-2019 11:17 AM


Re: SCOTUS refuses to hear about "gay wedding cakes"
Based on some of the answers from the other posters on the thread, the llne seems to be that Phillips ought not to be compelled to decorate a cake if it conflicts with his religious belief, but must provide basic accommodations that he otherwise commonly advertises for sale.

This continuing attempt to define how a Christian business MUST respond to requests to serve a gay marriage is completely futile. He's going to act on his own understanding of what it requires of him, act on his conscience no matter what the law says, act on his understanding of what God requires of Him even if it conflicts with the law. You can define it to precision to suit a legal judgment and if it conflicts with the baker's understanding of what God requires of him, it's nothing but futility.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1418 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-20-2019 11:17 AM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1422 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-20-2019 12:49 PM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32715
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1423 of 1484 (855545)
06-20-2019 1:01 PM
Reply to: Message 1422 by Hyroglyphx
06-20-2019 12:49 PM


Re: SCOTUS refuses to hear about "gay wedding cakes"
That requirement to obey the law is limited to whatever does not contradict God's law and that ought to be obvious. The Roman laws obviously did not contradict God's laws but now we have a law that does contradict God's law.

And you obviously don't understand this whole gay marriage thing since it's not against gays as such but specifically against their being married, which is a violation of God's law of marriage between a man and a woman.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1422 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-20-2019 12:49 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1425 by PaulK, posted 06-20-2019 1:12 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 1426 by Taq, posted 06-20-2019 1:13 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 1427 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-20-2019 1:29 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 1429 by AZPaul3, posted 06-20-2019 1:32 PM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32715
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1430 of 1484 (855568)
06-20-2019 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 1429 by AZPaul3
06-20-2019 1:32 PM


Re: SCOTUS refuses to hear about "gay wedding cakes"
Read hyro's post. He clearly doesn't know it.

However, your view is the formula from the true champions of h a t e who are destroying rational thought. The absurdity of marrying two people who have no natural biological reason for marriage and defending it as a civil right and calling those h a t e r s who know it's krazy must be killing half the brain cells in the country.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1429 by AZPaul3, posted 06-20-2019 1:32 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 1431 by ringo, posted 06-20-2019 2:03 PM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32715
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1432 of 1484 (855570)
06-20-2019 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 1431 by ringo
06-20-2019 2:03 PM


Re: SCOTUS refuses to hear about "gay wedding cakes"
No I'm not. It's a PRINCIPLE that defines marriage as for heterosexuals because they have the biological qualifications whether they are defective in them or not. And you are demonstrating exactly what I was talking about, the death of bazillions of brain cells.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1431 by ringo, posted 06-20-2019 2:03 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1433 by ringo, posted 06-20-2019 2:10 PM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32715
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1434 of 1484 (855573)
06-20-2019 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 1433 by ringo
06-20-2019 2:10 PM


Re: SCOTUS refuses to hear about "gay wedding cakes"
Yes there is a difference: They are biologically built for it and gays are not. You are making a principle out of a mere accidental defect. And it is conceivable that their problem could be cured too. Which is not the case for gays.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1433 by ringo, posted 06-20-2019 2:10 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1435 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-20-2019 2:33 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 1436 by ringo, posted 06-20-2019 2:42 PM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32715
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1437 of 1484 (855580)
06-20-2019 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 1436 by ringo
06-20-2019 2:42 PM


Re: SCOTUS refuses to hear about "gay wedding cakes"
Actually I didn't say anything about having children and wasn't thinking of that, so I got distracted. I was merely talking about the biological FIT between the sexes. You know, we're kind of built for complementarity and two of the same sex aren't. That's what I meant by biological qualification. And that's a basic biological PRINCIPLE. However, it is true that this basic biological fit is what leads to children so there is a connection but it's not inevitable and the fit alone makes for the qualification. If you try to defend sodomy as a "fit" I'm through with you.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1436 by ringo, posted 06-20-2019 2:42 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1438 by Stile, posted 06-20-2019 3:59 PM Faith has responded
 Message 1457 by ringo, posted 06-21-2019 11:38 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32715
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1439 of 1484 (855583)
06-20-2019 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 1438 by Stile
06-20-2019 3:59 PM


Re: SCOTUS refuses to hear about "gay wedding cakes"
No, in the history of the human race marriage is NOT about love. if it were I guess parents could marry children and we could all marry our dogs and cats. No it is not about love, it's about the bioloigical principle I'm talking about.\\

Oh and who is talking about anyone HAVING to get married?????.

This is all getting too ridiculously irrational. Good grief.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1438 by Stile, posted 06-20-2019 3:59 PM Stile has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1440 by Stile, posted 06-20-2019 4:11 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 1443 by PaulK, posted 06-21-2019 12:11 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 1458 by ringo, posted 06-21-2019 11:42 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 1462 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-21-2019 3:04 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32715
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1442 of 1484 (855623)
06-20-2019 10:57 PM
Reply to: Message 1441 by xongsmith
06-20-2019 10:45 PM


Re: and another thing
None of that requires marriage, in fact it makes even more of a travesty out of the whole thing. Oh golly gosh we HAVE to get married now! Give me a break!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1441 by xongsmith, posted 06-20-2019 10:45 PM xongsmith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1444 by PaulK, posted 06-21-2019 12:19 AM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32715
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1445 of 1484 (855627)
06-21-2019 12:35 AM
Reply to: Message 1444 by PaulK
06-21-2019 12:19 AM


Re: and another thing
So we need a charade of marriage to validate a charade of parenthood by a charade of man and wife enacted by a gay couple? And PC also requires us to put on a pretense of seriousness about all this pretense too.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1444 by PaulK, posted 06-21-2019 12:19 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1446 by PaulK, posted 06-21-2019 12:46 AM Faith has responded
 Message 1454 by Stile, posted 06-21-2019 9:13 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 1459 by ringo, posted 06-21-2019 11:46 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32715
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1447 of 1484 (855629)
06-21-2019 1:06 AM
Reply to: Message 1446 by PaulK
06-21-2019 12:46 AM


Re: and another thing
Making children treat a pretense as a reality is a horrible thing to do to them. If you really intend to provide a stable home for them, don't lye to them, don't pretend to a marriage that is just a charade meant to give you an excuse to pretend you are something you aren't, don't pretend you are man and wife when you're just two men or two women. Two "uncles" or two "aunts" can do a perfectly good job of raising children when necessary. The problem with gays adopting children to raise them as if they were their own is that it's just another charade. And the children learn to pretend they believe it. This is not good for their emotional health. But society today seems committed to all this pretense and is willing to enforce it with lots of PC namecalling. Maybe the next generation or two will be willing to blow the cover on all this deception.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1446 by PaulK, posted 06-21-2019 12:46 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1448 by PaulK, posted 06-21-2019 1:16 AM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32715
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1449 of 1484 (855631)
06-21-2019 1:30 AM
Reply to: Message 1448 by PaulK
06-21-2019 1:16 AM


Re: and another thing
Often single aunts and uncles HAVE had the job of raising children and I didn't mean for the specific titles to be set in concrete. My mistake but your manipulation as usual. Any excuse to accuse me of something, anything. Never a moment's benefit of the doubt from the izquierdo.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1448 by PaulK, posted 06-21-2019 1:16 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1450 by PaulK, posted 06-21-2019 2:13 AM Faith has responded

    
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