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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: The Right Side of the News | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Percy Member Posts: 22504 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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According to subpoenaed phone records by House Democrats, the White House, Republican Devin Nunes (ranking Republican on the House Intelligence Committee), the budget office, Rudy Giuliani, Lev Parnas (indicted partner of Giuliani) and conservative journalist John Solomon coordinated a disinformation campaign of Trump-backed conspiracy theories about the Ukraine around April of this year.
Source: Democrats obtained phone records showing how Trump allies coordinated 'false narratives' - CNNPolitics Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22504 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Let's try this again. You and Faith have claimed that attacks and insults from Trump are not something he initiates but are only his response to attacks and insults from Democrats and the mainstream media. This is what Trump said today in London in answer to a question about House Intelligence Committee Chair Adam Schiff:
quote: Trump mentions Schiff's parody of Trump's phone conversation with Zelensky, but that was way back in September. What current attack or insult is Trump responding to here? Or is it your contention that once Trump concludes he's been attacked or insulted that he has infinite license for issuing future attacks and insults? Current attacks/insults score: Trump: 49; Democrats: 1 --Percy
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JonF Member (Idle past 197 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
PolitiFact | What we know about the Politico story at the heart of a Ukraine conspiracy theory
quote:
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
They have completely backtracked. So now they have pissed off fundies as well as people that care about fair treatement for homosexuals. Never ate there, never will. They still contribute to orgs that promote hate against non fundie christians.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Oh well now isn't THAT predictable. They'll throw their own under the bus if they don't agree with the prevailing opinion. Politico's investigation is clearly honest but oh no we have to unearth some kind of fault in it to save the agenda. So they found that the Ukainian involvement was not equal in scale to the Russian involvement. \
But of course that isn't the point. Politico specifically showed that Ukraine was working on Hillary's side against Trump, whereas the Russians aren't clearly identified as working for either side. The Politico article was very clear that Ukraine's efforts were against Trump and actually did have an effect on our election, whereas that is not said about the Russian efforts however greater their scope. This is all a pretty transparent attempt to obscure the point of the Politico article: the interference was NOT for Trump but against him. And yes when Trump won the election, Ukraine scrambled to make up to him, for that very reason.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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Faith writes: Politico specifically showed that Ukraine was working on Hillary's side against Trump, There is no evidence that there was a government supported effort to support Hillary on the part of the Ukrainians. At most, individual Ukrainians voiced their poor opinions of Trump. This is completely different than what we saw with Russia. In the case of Russia, government money flowed into groups that posted fake news about Hillary Clinton, and government money supported the hacking of the DNC server. This is not in any way comparable to the opinions voiced by individual Ukrainians. Edited by Taq, : No reason given.
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JonF Member (Idle past 197 days) Posts: 6174 Joined:
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Politico's investigation was honest and apparently truthful.
It showed that some Ukrainian politicians preferred Hillary (as did many foreign politicians) but they didn't do much about it. It specifically stated that Russian intervention on Trump’s behalf was on a much larger scale than anything Ukrainians did. So I think the article is a dependable source but slanted, especially in its light-handed treatment of Manafort’s crimes, to which he pled guilty. Which doesn't support Trump’s or your claims. Russia interfered on Trump’s behalf on a scale that dwarfs anything any other actors did. Nothing other than Russia's actions are significant enough to discuss.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Righto, we must protect the Democrat point of view no matter what, so under the bus goes the Politico story which clearly identified the Ukrainian GOVERNMENT as working for Hilllary, which is why it also reported that they had to scramble to make friends with Trump after he won.. And up we come again with the Russian collusion accusation although we know that the "dirty dossier" against Trump came from Russian sources through Christopher Steele and was paid for by Hillary Clinton.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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Faith writes: Righto, we must protect the Democrat point of view no matter what, so under the bus goes the Politico story which clearly identified the Ukrainian GOVERNMENT as working for Hilllary, Where in the evidence for the claim that the Ukrainian government worked for Hillary?
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JonF Member (Idle past 197 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
Righto, we must protect the Democrat point of view no matter what, so under the bus goes the Politico story which clearly identified the Ukrainian GOVERNMENT as working for Hilllary,
Nope. But it did clearly identify Russia as the source of the only widespread and significant Interference.
And up we come again with the Russian collusion accusation although we know that the "dirty dossier" against Trump came from Russian sources through Christopher Steele and was paid for by Hillary Clinton.
Paid for in a normal, common, and legal commercial transaction. The Steele dossier is a minuscule portion of the evidence for collusion. Edited by JonF, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Golly gosh, "Government officials" you'd use to deny that the Ukraining government itself was behind the interference? Despite the fact that the Ukrainian government is reported as having to scramble to make it up to Trump after he won?
Nobody is denying Russian interference, but there is no evidence it was for Trump, certainly none of Russian collusion by Trump's campaign, and the only clear evidence, the "dossier" was for Hillary, as is the Ukraining interference. Why on earth would they want a conservative American President anyway? Hillary is right up their political alley, Trump is not. Paid for legally? That makes it OK to use false information to destroy Trump's campaign? Oh and now it is called "minuscule" evidence for collusion. Well, it's the "evidence" that launched the Mueller investigation. And no other was found by that investigation, just a bunch of connections that were unrelated to the election.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Politico gave evidence. I guess you are denying it?
Message 3099 POLITICO As I said in that post, Politico published this article back in February of 2017 [it was actually January] about "Ukrainian interference in our election on behalf of HILLARY, not Trump. This is what Trump was asking about in that phone call, more information about THIS Ukrainian corruption, and this is part of the evidence in the ONGOING investigation into interference by the Democrats in that election, by Barr and Horowitz and others I forget."
Ukrainian government officials tried to help Hillary Clinton and undermine Trump by publicly questioning his fitness for office. They also disseminated documents implicating a top Trump aide in corruption and suggested they were investigating the matter, only to back away after the election. And they helped Clinton’s allies research damaging information on Trump and his advisers, a Politico investigation found. A Ukrainian-American operative who was consulting for the Democratic National Committee met with top officials in the Ukrainian Embassy in Washington in an effort to expose ties between Trump, top campaign aide Paul Manafort and Russia, according to people with direct knowledge of the situation. The Ukrainian efforts had an impact in the race, helping to force Manafort’s resignation and advancing the narrative that Trump’s campaign was deeply connected to Ukraine’s foe to the east, Russia. But they were far less concerted or centrally directed than Russia’s alleged hacking and dissemination of Democratic emails. Russia’s effort was personally directed by Russian President Vladimir Putin, involved the country’s military and foreign intelligence services, according to U.S. intelligence officials. They reportedly briefed Trump last week on the possibility that Russian operatives might have compromising information on the president-elect. And at a Senate hearing last week on the hacking, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper said I don't think we've ever encountered a more aggressive or direct campaign to interfere in our election process than we've seen in this case. There’s little evidence of such a top-down effort by Ukraine. Longtime observers suggest that the rampant corruption, factionalism and economic struggles plaguing the country not to mention its ongoing strife with Russia would render it unable to pull off an ambitious covert interference campaign in another country’s election. And President Petro Poroshenko’s administration, along with the Ukrainian Embassy in Washington, insists that Ukraine stayed neutral in the race. Yet Politico’s investigation found evidence of Ukrainian government involvement in the race that appears to strain diplomatic protocol dictating that governments refrain from engaging in one another’s elections. The Ukrainian antipathy for Trump’s team and alignment with Clinton’s can be traced back to late 2013. That’s when the country’s president, Viktor Yanukovych, whom Manafort had been advising, abruptly backed out of a European Union pact linked to anti-corruption reforms. Instead, Yanukovych entered into a multibillion-dollar bailout agreement with Russia, sparking protests across Ukraine and prompting Yanukovych to flee the country to Russia under Putin’s protection. In the ensuing crisis, Russian troops moved into the Ukrainian territory of Crimea, and Manafort dropped off the radar. Manafort’s work for Yanukovych caught the attention of a veteran Democratic operative named Alexandra Chalupa, who had worked in the White House Office of Public Liaison during the Clinton administration. Chalupa went on to work as a staffer, then as a consultant, for Democratic National Committee. The DNC paid her $412,000 from 2004 to June 2016, according to Federal Election Commission records, though she also was paid by other clients during that time, including Democratic campaigns and the DNC’s arm for engaging expatriate Democrats around the world. Edited by Admin, : Clean this up so it's readable.
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JonF Member (Idle past 197 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
Golly gosh, "Government officials" you'd use to deny that the Ukraining government itself was behind the interference?
Yes, that's what the article and the evidence indicate.
Despite the fact that the Ukrainian government is reported as having to scramble to make it up to Trump after he won?
Yes.
Nobody is denying Russian interference, but there is no evidence it was for Trump
All 17 US intelligence agencies disagree. From Assessing Russian Activities and Intentions in Recent US Elections:
quote:{Bold in original, red added} Paid for legally? That makes it OK to use false information to destroy Trump's campaign?
Some of it has been discredited. Most of it hasn't. At the time none of it had been discredited.
Oh and now it is called "minuscule" evidence for collusion. Well, it's the "evidence" that launched the Mueller investigation.
Nope. The meeting between Papadopoulos and Downer is considered to be the 'spark' that led to the Mueller investigation. The DOJ IG report is due out any day now but we know it concludes that the investigation was justified and properly handled (with one minor exception)
And no other was found by that investigation, just a bunch of connections that were unrelated to the election.
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JonF Member (Idle past 197 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
All of that concerns activities by individuals except for:
quote:For which they provided no evidence of Ukrainian government involvement. In fact they gave some reason to doubt government involvement: quote:
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
OK you are going to make government representatives into mere individuals, you are going to keep on supporting the Left in all their lying corruption, their claims that Trump did what their own actually did, Biden's actual quid pro quo for personal gain, not in the nation's interest, Clinton's actual obstruction of justice. Trump has done neither. This is the most disgustingly devious stuff this country has ever seen. I hope all this gets exposed and criminally prosecuted.
Please, Lord God, bring out ALL the truth and make even the Democrats open their eyes to it. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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